RD asteroid

[xzzy]

I like the idea of the laser hall, it generates an execellent risk/reward mechanic in a very small space. But it needs tuning, as it's too hard to navigate at the speed that TF2 plays. As said, you have to slow down way too much to get through it.

They should tune it to be somewhere in between where it is now and say the trains on cp_well.. a risk that you always have to be aware of but it doesn't necessarily dominate the map.

Two lasers that move at the same speed might be a good start.

 

[Woozlez]

I see it as another chance for the demoman charge to shine. I've been able to charge through there 3 consecutive times by watching the patterns of the lasers and going through just at the right time. I think the lasers are great just the way they are.

 

[obsidiian]

After playing this map a lot more I think that it has potential but still has that 2fort feeling. There are a lot of chokey areas that you are forced to go through. More flanks and side routes would definitely not hurt the map.

 

[EArkham]

Bunch of semi-random thoughts here.

I'd been playing this a lot more, and honestly I very much like the area around Bots A and Bots B. Those areas, despite being a little unituitive thanks to the doors that aren't always open, are a lot of fun to play in.

When the doors are open, you can pretty much circle around opponents or escape, do hit and runs, or just flat out assault someone. Lots of strategic opportunities, health and ammo in key spots, and so far those areas have been lots of fun for me with just about any class.

I still dislike the teleporter to the front lines, but I have found a decent use for it: when the other team has pushed into Bots A or Bots B, you can take the tele, drop down and immediately go into your own base, and get behind them.

The underground tunnel on the other hand just feels like a chore to go through. The only times I like using the tunnel is when I spot someone from the other team going into our tunnel, and I drop down to follow them from the bridge.

I feel like the tunnel really needs to be shorter, and the entrance back into the base needs to NOT hook back around on itself. Instead of coming in on that back wall, it should come in on that flat wall facing Bots A. Keep the same width of the tunnel, but make it shorter.

Also that death pit in the tunnel should be smaller. About the only thing that pit does is let pyros who use the tunnel airblast you to death (and pyros already have tons of things to do on this map thanks to tight corridors and death pits at mid).

I still don't like last -- it's a huge PITA to get in and out of. However after playing this map quite a bit more, I think that's on purpose. I think they want last to be hard to get out of so that stealing the core isn't just a case of spy- or scout-rushing it.

So... TLDR, Bots A and Bots B is the best thing about the map by far. Map is still too big, teams spread out so much that you don't often feel like you're working with a team half the time.

 

[Toomai]

Alright, so as of the 18/07/14 update, this map's/mode's gotten a significant makeover. Most importantly, the map's been chopped down to a more reasonable size, and it actually feels playable now. The problem is, now it's hard if not impossible to get into the enemy base undetected. There's no ammo in the middle, so Spies have trouble getting across, and without the lower path it feels like 2Fort without the sewer route. (Actually, it's pretty much 2Fort with no sewer route and only one Sniper balcony to rocket jump onto.) There needs to be some way to get into the enemy base (not far, but far enough that you have options) without having to walk through what's basically a chokepoint.

 

[Prestige]

They need to make that far right door further away to counter sentries on the upper left in the lobby after mid. I think the bases and mid are far too chokey and far too open respectively. It makes for 40+ minute game stalemates just fighting at mid.

There are too many dropdowns and ledges on the map. It's not fun to constantly fight someone at a different height level thats extremely difficult to get up to. More ways up, please!

I find the best course of action IF you can actually get into the enemy base, is to just hide, wait for no one to be around and then attack the robots. There are so many places to hide (water, dropdowns, etc), it's easy. I think this could be rectified by adding more ways up to the upper areas and opening up the "lobbies" significantly, but I bet this strat never stops being effective, just cause of how tf2 maps are designed with flanks, routes etc..

I find games take way too long, it takes like 4-5 pushes all the way into the base if no one steals your points. If your points are stolen, then its practically double that. I think they could make it 200 points to win, no problem. It's not much fun fighting through the same chokes over and over again, especially mid which has basically 1 area you can approach from. They can do so much better with the lobby choke and mid in general, make it like a mini 5cp

 

[EArkham]

I'm actually really liking the changes this update brought.

However I think bringing the tunnel back is important. I never liked how long the tunnel was before, but a natural bridge under the current bridge leading to a SHORTER tunnel inside each base would be a great revision.

The teams stay together, and there's an obvious push-pull dynamic going on now, but it's all a bit too chokey now. Bringing a shorter version of the tunnel back would help that a lot.

I'm not sure why they moved Bots A back so to the bridge. I think since everything is easier to defend and push in this new version, they could put Bots A forward into the lobby area. This would make it possible to acquire at least some reactor points by only pushing into a single set of chokes, rather than through two.

 

[obsidiian]

Generally liking the new changes. The map is so much smaller now and there's a lot more action. However, it still is extremely chokey and lacking in flank options.

 

[Bakscratch]

18th July 2014 Update:
-Power Cores and Reactor Cores now add their point value to a team's score over time
-Reduced the rate at which points can be stolen from 15 per second to 10 per second
-Robots now heal 5 health per second to nearby friendly players
-The HUD has been reworked
-Inverted the layout to better represent the layout of the level
-Added progress bars to represent each team's score
-Potential point gains from stolen reactor cores are now visually represented on the score progress bars
-Thief icon now moves across the score board relative to the thief's position in the level
-Updated thief icon to represent both the color of the power core stolen and the color of the thief's team
-Added new strings to the win panel that explain why the team won
-Replaced the current "points being stolen" sound with a new sound
-Added better collision hulls to robot models
-Reworked robot skins to reduce similarity to the Ubercharged skin
-Sentry guns no longer target Ubercharged robots
-Layout has been adjusted with the overall goal of improving visibility of teammates
-Removed spawn teleporter
-Reduced map size by removing the front lobby and cave sections
-Added terrain paths on the sides of the mid bridge
-Increased width of the mid bridge
-Removed doors that locked when A and B robots were active
-Robots have been rearranged:
-A robots now roam the bridge above the water
-B robots now roam around the floor in front of the vault
-C robots now roam around the upper deck
-Added more line of sight blockers to the water room to provide better cover during combat engagements
-Reduced travel time for the water flanking route under the interior bridge
-Added a drop down to enter the water room from the front door staging area
-Increased size of the glass room near C robots to provide flanking cover to use against sentries that are placed at the corner of the upper deck
-Increased width of vault corridors
-Reworked vent route that leads to the vault, no longer need to crouch jump on exit
-Moved left spawn exit forward to reduce effectiveness of spawn camping
-Added a resupply cabinet to the right side spawn exit
-Re-positioned health and ammo pickup locations
-Added ramp collision to stairs
-Changed setup time from 60 seconds to 40 seconds
-Changed power reactor max return time from 90 seconds to 60 seconds
-Fixed gap in the death pit that allowed players to survive

 

[YM]

• It's maybe 50% the size now. Which is great.
• The third level of the balconies overlooking mid is gone, which sucks.
• The middle level balcony that was just a dead end into the enemy's teleporter exit is gone, which is great
• Scouts still manage to get from the reactor core to mid through some route completely unknown to me, which sucks.
• They clipped the stairs, which is great
• Mid is now entirely level with no lower route, which sucks.

 

[EArkham]

After more rounds, I'm still having tons of fun on this new iteration.

But middle BADLY needs another route. And I strongly feel that the Bots A need to be moved forward a bit so that at least some progress can be made against heavy turtle teams.

On the flipside, airblast or double donking heavies off the bridges has yet to get old.

 

[Prestige]

if they made the side paths dip down a bit in the middle leading to an under-the-bridge bridge route ala doublecross connecting the sidepaths, that would be cool and fun.

 

[evanonline]

After spending a fair amount of time on the new version of the map...this is awful, way, way worse.

Positives:

-Map is smaller, teleport is gone, this is good
-New base layouts feel much better
-New HUD helps so much
-The water pit went from feeling really dumb to really fun

The negative:

Ok I already give up on bulleting this, I'm just going to write.

The map is a horrendous chokefest that becomes a horrendous campfest. The match basically begins and ends at mid, and then because of how long it takes to earn points in this mode. Whoever pumps their way through mid can set up a sentry just outside the bases, or even fairly deep inside the base, and lock the other team inside their own home.

Camping becomes necessary because if you don't camp it just takes forever to earn any points. You can't make any big point steals, which sped up the game a lot in the first version of the map, because the enemy team tends to not have any points to steal. And with instant respawning while in enemy territory, if you kill someone they will be back in your face in mere seconds if there's an enemy teleporter in your base. I have had more than several moments where I'll be confused in a fight with another player because I could've SWORN I just killed them 10 seconds ago and they're already attacking from the exact same position.

The map is so tight and claustrophobic now and it's impossible to get around anywhere, it basically has the opposite problem of the first version of asteroid. The map went from fun-but-flawed to just being completely...unfun to play whatsoever.

-The map desperately needs another way through mid like the caves, just not as big and meandering, and the caves should come out in a more meaningful location in the base than they did before.

-The balcony needs to be adjusted in order to remove the very powerful sentry spots just outside the doorways into each base.

-Move the A bots up so points can be earned, even if it's slowly. 300 points as a goal was fine on the old map, but right now matches take forever to get anywhere. 300 feels like the right balance to me but on this iteration it's an atrociously hard goal to reach. Matches can take hours and go nowhere.

-I feel like there's a desperate lack of health throughout the map, maybe it's just me.

-The spawn exits both go to the same place, for all intents and purposes. Though the teleporter being removed is a very good thing, how to access the balcony quickly isn't immediately evident. Check out my really professional MS Paint mockup.

the first instincts of most players (including myself) is to go down the stairs rather than go straight forward, but that's the way you SHOULD really be going if you're coming out this exit. I think this change is worth tinkering with.

I would put a sign in spawn pointing left to battlements and right to the reactor core, as well.

All in all the new layout is...BETTER, the bases are so much more straightforward and less confusing, but the changes to mid make this map really, really bad. Bring back the caves! Just don't make them so huge! Give more breathing room at mid, make it easier to exit your own dang base! Right now this map isn't fun.

 

[EArkham]

Had some more thoughts on this of course. Now with cheesy paintovers!

Suggestion on how to handle the return of the tunnel:

If this doesn't fix the current choke at mid, a small alt route at mid might help, but this would mean quite a lot of entrances into the base, might be getting silly with this.

 

[Pocket]

I like the last two pictures. Actually, what if that lower ledge in the second-to-last picture connected to a mini-tunnel going to the lower filled-in mid you suggested

...like that?

 

[EArkham]

Hm, maybe. It'd certainly be more interesting since you could drop down in the middle, run back to their tunnel, or back out to your small entrance.

But if you're in middle gap, you'd be presented with 4 paths in 4 different cardinal directions (tunnel blu, tunnel red, small entrance blu, small entrance red) rather than just 2 (forward into one base and back into your own). That could make things unnecessarily confusing.

Plus I was thinking the trade off for having so many entrances would be that dropping down to the ledge would be a) minor risk, and b) force a commitment to that path since you couldn't get back out any other way.

[Edit] Though really it's all theoryhammer at this point, so who knows.

 

[Crash]

It definitely seems like the fighting is all happening now on mid, which isn't a fun place to fight. It's really flat and boring for a non-jumping class. Before the fighting was happening in the front lobbies, which felt a lot more dynamic.

 

[LeSwordfish]

Its nice that they published this guy's first map.

No, seriously, thats what it feels like to me. hey guys i'm new here this is my first map it has robots and ctf and a points system and lots of deathpits and lasers and its set in space and there's a vent you have to crawlthrough and lots of water because pyros are OP

I still dont know for sure how the points work. Does damaging robots give points, or killing them? how are there 250 points and like four robots? Why are the robots ubercharged now? Why dont the robots follow the paths on the ground? Why is there a briefcase with "10" in it on my HUD?

It feels too long. Like fighting to the robots themselves is an achievement, let alone the flag.

And the lasers are truly ridiculous. I've said this before but: It's fun to throw people into hazards, it's not fun at all to accidentally walk into them. The lasers take "accidentally walking into hazards" to an artform.

 

[Turbo Lover]

Since it was updated, I've left every single game of Asteroid feeling exhausted - take that as you will.

The changes made to the map definitely achieve the goal that was set: improving visibility of teammates. When the server was full, it felt like it was full.

The big problem now is mid, I said before it's like 2Fort in space, now it's an arguably worse 2Fort in space. Removing the lower cave route entirely was a bit of an overstep, without another route through mid the fight tends to enter an intractable stalemate. There's not much cover on mid, which makes getting to the enemy team's side of the map hard enough, then you're funnelled through two tiny doorways that one level three sentry can cover, nevermind multiple - which is typically how many there are. More often than not I had to use the Dead Ringer or Bonk! to get into their base - even with those it'd take multiple tries, as I'd need to activate them just to leave our base.

That brings me to my next problem, if one team does break this stalemate and forces the defending back from their lobby, the defending team is then locked into their base. The stalemate just moves into one team's base, which makes it even harder to break, and nigh impossible to gain points in any way - they're forced to defend, but defending alone won't win the game, it just delays the inevitable.

The recent changes also make it a lot more difficult to steal the enemy's core, the vent exit is practically useless since it's so much longer and more difficult to utilise, making the lasers the best escape route in every situation - even if you crouchwalk through and stop in between each laser, it's quicker than the vents. I always took the laser route anyway, though, so this didn't affect me as much as the changes to mid have. The intractable stalemate on the front lines makes it incredibly difficult to get out of their base, even when they're not trying to keep you in their base, as the only exits are already covered by the defensive lines that are already in place. That mile-long cave route doesn't seem so bad if the alternative is a massive choke.

In the old version of Asteroid, I liked playing Spy or Scout, they both had their different methods of navigating the map and getting where the enemy doesn't want you - you could run around their base harassing their bots, or if those are being defended, make a dash for their core. Now, it feels like the only way to play is to go Spy with the Cloak and Dagger, slowly inch your way around the spam in mid then pick off robots while the enemy isn't paying attention. Maybe if I'm playing with people I know and trust, I'll play Medic and try to break the stalemate with a few ubers, but in pubs, it's back to slowly increasing our point total before hiding in a corner until the enemy team forget about me.

 

[Prestige]

its really easy to kill someone trying to get through the lasers though. i think the vents are a bit too slow though. the crouching was a neat idea i guess, but i think making the vents longer works much better.

I think it's tiring because gathering 300 points is really fucking long and annoying. It really sucks that you can be on the verge of winning and then a scout/spy sneaks passed (although it is considerably harder) and steals points, you have to send a few guys back to guard the core and it slows you down considerably. stealing is such a big swing. I joined a valve server where we were getting rolled and it was like 280-0. We stole 230 and then 90 and won without killing a single robot. It's really lame how they didn't have access to a 460 point swing like we did because they were destroying us. When you are down 280-0, there really is no other option than to try to steal the core.