RD asteroid

ibex

aa
Sep 1, 2013
308
528
I think the gamemode will clear up when they introduce the actual plot behind the map (if they do decide to give a moonbase update to go with). I was looking through all the announcer lines the other night in the sound browser, and they've got some lines for rd that make it sound like they are trying to destroy a ship or something.

My guess is that you are trying to steal power cores to power your ship to get off the asteroid. I think they are reluctant to change the 300 win value because they've already got other assets or work that alludes to it.---but this is all crappy speculation
 

RaVaGe

aa
Jun 23, 2010
733
1,210
That would be a great ambient sound if it was audible in the human range of hearing. This is the ambient sound based on electronic waves, not audible waves.


The best ambient sound for asteroid is none at all. (In it's current state. I'm assuming there will be something else to will say "Hey, there's air on this rock!)

Ahah I don't know why but I expected something like that from you, anyway the sounds are pretty important in a level, it add a 4th dimension to it imo, I know you can't hear that kind of sounds, but it's definitely one of those wich could fit the most on that map.
 

Fruity Snacks

Creator of blackholes & memes. Destroyer of forums
aa
Sep 5, 2010
6,394
5,571
Ahah I don't know why but I expected something like that from you, anyway the sounds are pretty important in a level, it add a 4th dimension to it imo, I know you can't hear that kind of sounds, but it's definitely one of those wich could fit the most on that map.

I aim to please.

And you are absolutely right. Something like those sounds could work, the generic space sounds appear in a lot of games. I would just think that a theremin sound panel would have the same affect and be a little bit cooler.
 

Turbo Lover

Fight me under Glasgow Central Station
aa
Feb 15, 2011
333
344
Before I get into the nitty gritty of the map, I want to talk about the HUD. I preferred the previous version because it was easier to see the status of each bot group at a glance and the positioning of each group icon allowed them to be used as a rough indication of where an enemy that has stolen the core is - if the thief icon is above B, he's in that area, etc. Also, when both teams' cores are in play, the HUD can be difficult to read as the cores are dropped and picked up again in rapid succession and the bars slowly try to catch up, only to repeat the process as the core is picked up or dropped again. I think the simplest solution is simply to have the shaded bars represent cores stolen by the enemy. A different solution could be to use two bars - a shaded red bar to represent points stolen from RED, and a shaded BLU bar to represent points stolen from BLU, like so.

Without further ado, let's move on to my map feedback.

I have not felt so frustratingly useless and ineffective at changing the course of a round as I have felt playing Asteroid in a long, long time. I like to think I'm pretty good at TF2, so when I play pubs, I feel like I can turn the tables of a bad game if I push myself that little bit harder. That is not how I feel on Asteroid. Instead, I feel like I'm constantly grasping at straws, I feel like I need to be everywhere, killing everyone and doing everything, or we're going to lose.

The main issue that I see, is that the position of the entrances and exits to each team's base, the layout of the room that contains the bridge with bot group B on it, and the power of the trigger volumes that modify respawn time, all make it very difficult for teams that have been forced back into their own base to push back out of it. I've mentioned this twice before, but I'd like to go into further detail now.

A defending team will typically try to defend from the lobby area of their base, being able to hold this area means you can control who enters and exits the base, but should a defending team be pushed out of this area, this control is transferred to the attacking team, and they can lock the defending team inside their base to prevent them from scoring points. Furthermore, from this position, the attacking team that has established a forward hold in the enemy team's lobby has instant respawns at all times, while the defending team that are already being prevented from leaving their base or scoring points to win, must wait the full 6-12 seconds at all times. From here, the fight moves on to the water bridge room.

97382dc5e0.jpg


Looking at this area, doesn't it look an awful lot like mid? The parallels that can be drawn between this image and Asteroid's own mid - which in turn draws parallels with 2Fort's mid - are uncanny to me. It may not be a perfectly symmetrical mid, but it's close enough that it plays like one, and that's what hammers the final nail into the coffin for our defending team. For all intents and purposes, breaking the attacking team's forward hold on their base and pushing into enemy territory are synonymous to the defenders. But it's a losing battle, because no matter how many enemies you kill, reinforcements just keep coming in thanks to those instant respawns - to say nothing of any teleporters hidden in the base - and every defender that dies just means you're outnumbered that much more. Even if you manage to defend your side of this secondary mid in your base, the enemy will win eventually as they have unrestricted access to bot group A - B and C aren't that much harder for them to kill either, but even without those bot groups, they're going to win eventually. The defending team's last resort is to make a desperate attempt at the enemy's core - which is in no way a reliable win condition.

So the team that has established a forward hold in the enemy team's lobby eventually scores the full 300 points and wins the round, while the defenders are cooped up in their spawn with only a handful of points. And just in case you weren't convinced that this is what happens, we have the numbers to prove it. I personally played 20 consecutive games of Asteroid - changing servers regularly - and recorded the final scores of each team. Additional data was provided by Tumbolisu and Howling Techie, bringing the total games played up to 28.

Turbo Lover said:
300-0
300-0
300-91
300-10
300-5
300-4
300-82
300-0
300-20
300-90
300-16
300-17
300-51
300-29
300-14
300-40
300-174
300-0
300-107
300-5
300-82

Tumbolisu said:
300-114
300-69
300-28
300-79
300-70
300-12

Howling Techie said:
300-35
300-5

On average, the winning team on Asteroid wins with a point lead of 258. Uncertainties created by unbalanced teams and stolen cores can be accounted for by adding or subtracting 7. It's also worth noting that of the 28 games played, only one game's losing team ended the round with a score greater than half of the winning amount, and only three losing teams ended the round with over a third. If that's not proof, I don't know what is.

Thinking about how I'd improve this map, the first and most obvious aspect to change would be the instant respawn triggers - whether you weaken them, shrink them, or remove them entirely, something about them must be done to prevent one team from having so much presence in the enemy team's base. But there's still the water bridge room, and even with the total removal of the instant respawn triggers, a few teleporters will still turn this room into a second mid - just a better balanced one. That's not what you want to have inside your own base. So, we've gotta make it easier for a team to attack the front of their own base.

6f470916d9.jpg


First suggestion, lower the bridge with bot group B on it, the door leading to the bridge from outside the base, and the platform overlooking the bridge that is closest to the outside. The platforms overlooking the water bridge aren't quite even but pretty close to it, tipping that balance and creating some powerful height for the defending team would go a long way to making the lobby an easier position to attack.

59fb0df117.jpg


df93423fdb.jpg


The first screenshot shows a platform that hangs over the right side of the room that has access to a vent, this vent drops down into the room with the medium healthpack and medium ammokit from the square on the roof in the second screenshot. Those two weird shapes on the right of the second screenshot are supposed to be glass. A big problem with moving into the lobby area from the defender's perspective is a lack of visibility of what's in there, more windows in the area should help with that. The vent is there because there are very few ways to actually get to the second floor of the lobby as a defender, the stairs that bot group A encircle are seldom a viable option as that's where a lot of enemies cluster, leaving you with only the glass tunnel along the left of the water bridge room. Not only does this vent dropdown add another route, it's one that can't effectively be used by the attackers, and would be useful for taking out enemy sentry placements inside your lobby - which are disgustingly common.

730860cfda.jpg


Lowering the water level here would allow for a tunnel to punch through the area underneath the lobby and come back out in your team's cave. This tunnel would most likely need to be a one-way out of the base so as to prevent Scouts and Spies being able to bypass almost all of a team's defences, but a route that takes you outside of the base while completely avoiding the lobby would be invaluable to core thieves, which are heavily relied upon by teams which are losing. The thief not only gains a safer way past the enemies at the gate, but a nice escape route to make use of when they have taken the core. Of course, it need not be used by core thieves alone, should the enemy be rooted inside your lobby, it would act as a convenient flank.

Whether or not my suggestions make waves, the thing I want to see most in the patch notes for this map is "Layout has been adjusted with the overall goal of increasing defenders' ability to push back out of their base." as it's this key fault with the map that is making me angry and frustrated on a map I think has a lot of potential.

P.S. I've been thinking the core mechanic splits teams up a little too much, and I think that's an opinion others have voiced, but I need to test more before I can say for sure. I'll let you guys know how I feel about that after another 20 games of Asteroid.
God help me.
 
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Pocket

Half a Lambert is better than one.
aa
Nov 14, 2009
4,694
2,579
This thread needs to not die.

So, the detailing is coming along nicely, weird lighting from the new lightmap effect notwithstanding (again, it would make more sense for lightmaps on models to be implemented on a sub-skin basis, so fine trim like the ridges in the pipes would still be vertex-lit). There is one thing I noticed, though, that I assume isn't meant to be like this:

B2E2DFA6352B8982F3CEFB946903218EDE18A92F


These giant props on the roofs of the bases...

2E1FEFF67C523EE894BBAE08D3C731DF3AFF4734


...are hollow. This is a lot of unnecessary lighting data, here.
 

YM

LVL100 YM
aa
Dec 5, 2007
7,135
6,056
They're cleeeaaaarly unfinished and still in their early stages, we shouldn't judge them just yet.

Both bases clearly have some kind of door, presumably a hangar? So it makes sense that there's something inside. Who knows, maybe there will be some dynamic nature to the doors later.
 
Apr 14, 2013
663
343
I find this map bad*. (Unlike cactus canyon, which I really enjoy but didn't write any feedback about)
In case Valve reads this, I will provide an explanation pf the problems I think of.

*My expirience is all from playing public Valve servers, so the reason for my belief that the map is bad might come from playing with (unevenly skilled) playerbase, (no coordination) between the players, and (really not credit to team) players. Take as my personal opinion (affected by all of the above) rather than the (ultimate truth).



1) The map is really fustrating to play. after playing half a match I get really angry and feel like I don't want and can't continue. The main reason is that the teams always feel unbalanced. Why is that? Probably not because of actual unbalanced teams. I believe that if Valve released the statistics of points achieved by each team by the end of the round, it will be an avrage of something around 300/40 or even less. Look at that amazing math: 750% of 40 is 300.

tl;dr: Defenders are having a hard time to push attackers from their own B to their own A and to mid (Big problem in something that is technically a (gimmicky) ctf map!)

There are two teams: team 1 and team 2. Team 1 is the winning team, team 2 is the losing team.

I played as both team 1 and team 2. Playing as team 2 is obviously fustrating, (If you can't get to mid without dying and can't get points - it is fustrating) which leads to team 2 stopping to care (or worse: just waiting for the match to end). If team 2 doesn't care anymore, playing as team 1 is no fun as well.

Why is getting to mid so hard?
Because the A area is chokey.
Because A area also has a very OP highground. Whoever controls the highground, WINS.

So, whoever gets a (sentry?) lockdown on the highground over his A first, prevents most enemy people from getting into his base. Whoever gets a lockdown on enemies A... (wins.)

2014-09-22_00001_zps402214a3.jpg


Why does he win by locking A? because he can simply harvest the A robots. It will take him a lot of time, but he will eventually win. Unless the other team manages to destory the sentries guarding their own A.
Which won't happen without coordination. (As I said, I never got to expirience cooporation in this map, it might be great when playing with team cooporation IDK.)

How do I believe this could be solved? I don't believe this could be solved. I think it might be improved: first, by widening A's chokes. Secondly, by adding some ways to flank the sentries
2014-09-22_00003_zpsac26cdd3.jpg

2014-09-22_00004_zps9090879e.jpg


What else? I think the map could benefit from a 1 way path from B to mid, serving as a flank. This map really misses some good old beafy flanks.

2014-09-22_00011_zps2bdfbd91.jpg

2014-09-22_00012_zps51e0d464.jpg

2014-09-22_00009_zps65307a44.jpg



More suggestions: reduce the point amount to 100 or 150. I think it will make team 2 feel better with themselves if they will lose after 10 mins 150/20 than if they lose after 20-30 mins 300/40.


2) The map feels like a gimmicky 2fort. some of the gimmicks are maybe a bit too much. When you have a good map, you don't need gimmicks to make it good.

list of gimmicks:
  • new gamemode- awesome!
  • custom theme (space)- Great!
  • deathpits- alright.
  • animated dish models- ok
  • narrow vents that require using the crouch button- well..
  • death lazers of death- c'mon...
    2014-09-22_00005_zpsba142b8b.jpg

This is as close as Valve will ever get to trainsawlazer. (taking that degree from sawmill)
 
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Pocket

Half a Lambert is better than one.
aa
Nov 14, 2009
4,694
2,579
It really does feel like something you'd expect to see on a trade server's map.
 

111112oo

L1: Registered
Dec 13, 2013
23
0
This is why i'm not keen on this valve oublic beta system- bad ideas that are popular (lasers, vents, the gamemode) have to stay, because people will kick up a stink if they're removed.
I doubt people will be mad at valve removing the pipes in the vent.
 

Pocket

Half a Lambert is better than one.
aa
Nov 14, 2009
4,694
2,579
Also, maybe everyone at Valve loved the bad ideas. Why else would they have put them in? At least this way they'll know in advance that some people think they're dumb.
 

Yacan1

D I G I T A L I N F L U E N C E R
aa
Nov 7, 2010
411
793
Sort of reminds me of the Merasmus Halloween map-type deal. A map full of dumb community ideas. Prop Hunt, RTD, saxton hale, etc.
 

bobotype

L1: Registered
Sep 24, 2014
39
5
The game mode is a great idea to me, and fun to play- like CTF, but with more than one objective, which is great considering the kind of turtling you see in 2fort, for example- and capping the battery for turnarounds is fun, the map itself just needs a lot more balancing. Lasers need to move a little slower maybe. I don't know if all robots being available at all times and A/B/C tiers only affecting the points they're worth would help, maybe?
 
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EArkham

Necromancer
aa
Aug 14, 2009
1,625
2,773
Crossposting from Facepunch to increase the chances that Valve sees this:

<kicks off the dust from this thread>

So here's a couple of minor issues regarding jumping in rd_asteroid.

This one is probably temporary, but just in case I felt I should point this out. It's important because if you're used to backing towards the narrow stairs (either as a defender reacting to a jumper/scout coming in on the sniper deck, or an attacker trying to jockey against a sentry nest), that jump on RED's side can be a killer. To fix this, I'd keep the aesthetic but just playerclip it so you don't have to jump.

hYKXddl.jpg



This next one is an issue I meant to bring up a while ago, and honestly I just forgot. The series of jumps isn't bad, but it's very much unintuitive to have to reverse your jumping direction at the top. My suggestion on this one is to just reverse the brushwork blocks so you're jumping in the same direction all the way up.

3Q7ZDCS.jpg
 

Moonfixer

L5: Dapper Member
Aug 23, 2014
229
81
I really like the idea of this map and game mode. But I think I'll need to play it a little more to better understand it.