What is this about

I was asked about this feedback, that I received from Valve years ago on one of my maps. So i'm sharing this, with permission. I've heard this is rare to get feedback from them directly, so if could be is usefull to you, who are making maps. Make use of it and avoid the mistakes I did - and dont give up!

Long story short, the feedback is from pl_curve, which was my fist payload map and my 2nd TF2 map I ever made. It was for TF2 Dynamic Payload Contest on TF2maps.net back in 2012-2013 or so, and didnt get into 2nd round, along with the 10 other maps that did. I was kind of disappointed on that, because one of the maps that got through, was unfinished and had dev textures even still in use, while mine was more or less “ready” map.

So I figured I will mail the map to Valve. I was bold so I asked if it was good enough for official map. I received a reply which said that mail will be forwarded to the TF2 team they will try to gather some feedback to me. That promise was kept and i'm sharing this feedback on that map now, as requested in Discord.


Couple of words:

1. This feedback applies only to the map on how it looked at that time. I have attached couple of screenshots here too so you know what to look for. These are not the only problematic spots on the shots. While the feedback is on this map, the advices are universal - you can make use of them in your own map design.

2. If you compare map pl_curve and the map Brimstone (pl_fifthcurve_event), without paying attention to the halloween stuff, you'll see what I have changed for the better layout wise. Bristone aka pl_fifthcurve_event exists already on your pc as its official map. Its the later version of this original map.

So, In short, avoid the swiss cheese design, too crowded areas with too many angles, routes, height elevation and places that look and are dead ends. Read on!

The VALVe Feedback:

--- FEEDBACK STARTS ---
Hello there,

We've had a couple playtests on your map pl_curve, and I am happy to give you some feedback.

We had some good fun beating each other up in your map, but there are a few things that are holding the map back from having a more fulfilling gameplay experience.

From a high level, the map tends to not lead players well from one point to another. As a player enters a space, and wants to transition to another space, the paths that they take to get there are not always readily apparent or clear.

There are a number of specifics leading to this:

- There are a lot of dead ends, rooms, hallways and staircases that lead the player into thinking they are navigable paths, yet they are not.

- The art can be a bit busy sometimes, causing players to lose their sense of direction. Too much detail, key players and navigable paths get lost.

- The cart path is not clear- The multitude of cart tracks on the ground causes players to miss the main path in the map and have difficulty finding the front line of battle.

- It's hard for players to quickly be able to draw a mental map of what the spaces are, if at all. This stems from the complexity, and number of routes through the spaces.

- Gates from spawns that are closed and later open are confusing. Lots of closed gates in the map are difficult for players to determine the rules of their state change.

Additionally, combat was difficult given the density of routes through the map and backdoors. Internally in our own development we've dubbed this "swiss cheese," - it feels like there is a sea of doors, windows and other positions from which an enemy could appear at any point of combat and it makes the arena difficult to parse.

- Combat spaces are hard to parse. Enemies can hide in lots of dark areas or windows that aren't obvious.

- Too many routes for the defenders to flank the offense.

Lastly, the dynamic element of the mining carts moving out of the way of the bomb cart - While unique, is a bit confusing thematically and an anti-climax for players. Perhaps something along the lines of a crossing guard gate or similar mechanic could fill their purpose.

If you are still working on the map, I would focus on streamlining the ways that players move through the map. Cut out dead ends, or closets that look like paths. Help lead players better from one space to another. Make the cart path more clear, and streamline the artpass for a less detailed easier to digest look. Finally, a clipping pass to smooth the rough edges players get caught on while navigating the map would be a nice final touch.

It is always great to see the work community authors are making and it is clear you have put a lot of hard work into this map.

We're excited to see what you cook up next.

Best of luck,
--- FEEDBACK ENDS ---

Couple of things to not to do are attached in screenshots. Original map added as download, the pl_fifthcurve_event is on your pc as stated.

Thanks to Valve for this and I hope this is usefull to you. Feel free to ask more in comments. Thanks!