[WIP] ctf_Aerospace

Discussion in 'WIP (Work in Progress)' started by Arhurt, May 8, 2008.

  1. Uriak

    Uriak L8: Fancy Shmancy Member

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    Well, it depends only of possible other improvements you may do meanwhile. Have you got some other feedback to analyse ?
     
  2. Arhurt

    Arhurt L6: Sharp Member

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    I have just released the latest version of my map and I hope you guys like the changes. This time most of the bugs you guys found where fixed and there are also some other improvements. Check the changelog below for a list of changes:

    - Removed the collision for the hangar cables holding the platforms
    - Added various pick-ups around the map according to the following list:
    ---- Large Ammo crate on the raised platform in the cave
    ---- Medium Ammo and Health pack on the back of each base
    ---- Small Ammo and Health pack in the middle of the wooden walkway in front of the cave entrance
    ---- Added a medium ammo pack in front of the tires outside the hangar
    ---- Upgraded the small ammo pack on top of the hangars to a medium one
    - Added playerclips to the edge of the cave pits to prevent "sliding" in the pits of death
    - Added playerclips to the crystal areas in the base to prevent getting stuck
    - Completely reworked the inside of the hangar so that it's less cluttered and confusing
    - Added the waterfall sounds (I removed them by accident)
    - Added playerclips to all stairs to prevent bumping
    - Added a nobuild area to the waterfall platform
    - Raised the stalagmites so you don't bump your head on them
    - Made the rocks on top of the blue hangar solid
    - Fixed the Red base skywalking
    - Tweaked the redbaron model to improve performance
    - Fixed the place behind the waterfall where a player could get stuck
    - Fixed the place by the trees where a player could get stuck
    - Added unbreakable glass to the last window of the side top row on the intel room
    - Miscellaneous graphics fixes and improvements

    And you can download the map from these two mirrors:
    TF2Maps.net Forums - ctf_aerospace_b3
    FPSBANANA - ctf_aerospace_b3


    Any suggestions, compliments and criticizm is welcome.
     
  3. Bonafide

    Bonafide L6: Sharp Member

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    you still have to 1cm drop of death... i thought you were increasing it so you drop a more realistic height before dying. (Think about how far you fall on Capture point E on Steel for example)
     
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  4. Icarus

    aa Icarus

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    Steel and VALVe maps have the trigger_multiple along the floor

    like, right on top of it
     
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  5. tenaciousg

    tenaciousg L1: Registered

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    alright there was a waterfall noise in blue spawn/intel, not sure if it was for red spawn too but it was very loud. more optimization if possible, this map and downpour i was getting poor fps compared to what i can get out of a valve map or some of the others. i loved the planes though, very creative and great fluid animation to them. the bridge on that outer skirt of the map just looks out of place.. and if you look down on that side there's trees coming out of rocks which did not look right at all.
     
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  6. Arhurt

    Arhurt L6: Sharp Member

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    Hey guys sorry for dropping off the face of the earth this last weekend, RL stuff that I needed to take care of.

    Anyway, thanks guys, I had to prostpone on messing with the pit since I'm going to completely rework the bridge section. I'm fixing the insta-death on the pits as well.

    Any ideas on what can cause the waterfall sound to play in the spawnrooms and other areas? I don't get this problem on local testing, even on a different PC with another steam account. The waterfall are just Ambient_generic placed near where the player would be, and works fine for me :/

    Other than that a fix I'm working on is blocking the front hangar windows with unbreakeable glass as people are complaining about snipers killing people inside their own base from the other side. I may also add doors to the intel tower 2nd and 1st floor, not too sure about that though...

    As far as optmization goes, I'm tweaking my models and reducing most about 10-20% on polycount. Setting some new areaportals as well.

    Feedback is much appreciated guys, I'm aiming for the next release to be close to final :)
     
  7. ColdFire

    ColdFire L2: Junior Member

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    keep it up :thumbup:
     
  8. crazychicken

    crazychicken L2: Junior Member

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    I get the waterfall bug playing at spawn too.

    Personally I think the bases are out of place, they are a ramshackle mess of planks and corrugated iron when I think a realistic hangar with solid architecture of brick or concrete leading to the intel would be more appropriate in a state of the art airfield especially with the other buildings and control towers built solidly and realistically etc.

    The bridge is redundant and I would prefer to see access over the top of the hill through grass and trees instead

    I would like to see the cave have more detail than just grey walls and holes, I dont think it should have any holes in the ground, maybe some shallow pools of water because of the waterfall, some small vegetation, rocks, a bit of mist to make it spooky, some old ruined weapons/corpses/ruined planes and maybe a blocked path to soem old tunnel for weapons testing or an old attempt to mine into the enemy base. Some crystals in a few other palces than just the corner, pickaxes and some minign equiopment like carts etc

    I would also prefer it if it wasn't a mirror map, so if you change the bases at least make the layout and architecture be unique to each side as it adds a lot more to the map. Red style buildings and blu style buildings would work well with their respective planes.

    Maybe some form of defence walls/weapons against attack or air raids, even bomb craters maybe on top of the hill if you make it :p
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2008
  9. MangyCarface

    aa MangyCarface Mapper

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    Chicken, you are basically asking for a completely new map...

    -TF2's style IS ramshackle. State of the art, is exactly what TF2 is not about

    -Then the new path would be 'redundant' too; the bridge has its uses, though it may need a bit of cover

    -The cave looks like a cave; mist ruins framerates, many of your other suggestions require entirely new models... some foliage might liven it up but really the cave stands as a contrast to the rest of the map

    -Nearly impossible to balance, and basically a completely different map design?? No... save that for your own map

    The map's just getting polished up now and these suggestions require a complete overhaul rather than simple fixes : /
     
  10. Arhurt

    Arhurt L6: Sharp Member

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    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]


    Time for an update!

    Beta 4 is out! get it here: http://forums.tf2maps.net/downloads.php?do=file&id=376

    And here's the list of changes:

    - Added a small building to the side of each hangar with ammo and health.
    - Closed off the path closest to the cliffside by the hangar yard forcing enemies to come by the front of it.
    - Created a small alcove for engineers in front of the Hangar with a Full ammo pack and cover to set up sentries outside.
    - Added a large ramp in front of the hangars to create more varied height gameplay in that area and provide more options for entering the hangar.
    - Added a narrow ramp from the lowest bridge across the chasm to it's roof so players have the option of going up the three paths there as well as going down.
    - Added cover behind the billboards atop the shacks.
    - Added a set of wood planks to the walkways across the chasm to help players manevour without jumping and falling down.
    - Added a small healthkit to the top of the main hangar to help the flying demoman for the great damage they take upon landing.
    - Added a set of props to the side of the spawn exit so that enemies will be less hidden when spawncamping.
    - Moved the planes inside the hangar so that there is more space for engies to place their teleport entrances hidden from enemies.
    - Bug fix: Neither the intel or Stickybombs will be able to hide behind the cliff rocks. The bombs will bounce off and stick to the ground until I find a better fix.
    - Bug fix: Players no more die instantly after falling down from the bridge in the chasm. It's still a deathpit, but there is a chance for a lucky double or rocket-jump.
    - Minor improvements to graphics all around and minor optmization.

    Take a look and tell me what you guys think!
     
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    Last edited: Dec 12, 2008
  11. Arhurt

    Arhurt L6: Sharp Member

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    Hey guys, I have some interesting news to share.

    I have been contacted by certain figures and there is a real possibility of the map being released in an official patch in the future.

    Problem is, the map is flawed in it's current form in a way that I cannot fix unless making significant changes to the basic level geometry. These changes are so drastic that I need to start over from scratch.

    Good news is I have the energy to make it and now also have the knowledge to do it. So I ask you to list the features that you like most about the map so that I can keep is as close as possible to the current layout and fit into the technical specs from Valve.

    From my own experience I love the way the intel room works. The many ways you can get inside and many paths you can take to leave with the intel make this one of my most liked parts of the map.

    The newer version also saw some very good improvements to the area just outside the Hangar. The places to build Sentries and paths spies and pyros can take to ambush the defenders works really well.

    The area that's going to suffer the biggest changes is the middle area and the cave area. The middle area with the bridge will have to be severly changed and it's unlikely people on one hangar will be able to snipe people on the other side. This is a technical limitation that right now makes the map very unefficient about filtering what the server and clients see at any given time.

    So that's it, help me with comments on what you like about the map with broad strokes so that I can capture the same gameplay with the next version.
     
  12. YM

    aa YM LVL100 YM

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    Actually, the parts I like least are the middle bits, the cave and the stuff out the front so actually a redesign of those areas would possibly make it better for me.
    How about (heres an unusual idea) Instead of having the two bases facing each other with PVS blocking stuff in the middle, make the two bases at either end of an L shape, then in this case you'd have the path most people would attempt to take being the inside corner of the L and the quieter, longer path for spies and sneaky infiltration would be on the outside of the L bend.
     
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  13. Arhurt

    Arhurt L6: Sharp Member

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    Would you care to illustrate that? It is an interesting idea.
     
  14. Chilly

    Chilly L6: Sharp Member

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    I agree with Youme. If there was any drawback to your map before it was the middle cave area. Great news on the "contacted by certain figures" part. :D

    I like Youme's idea of a L shaped map. It's basically the same as most CTF maps but you extend the area between the bases and bend that area 90 degrees. This means the bases are actually relatively close to each other which means you can make a well-traveled primary path close to the bases and then allow people to walk the full L to take the longer route. I'll let him draw it. :)

    When you do that area, I'd like to suggest that you try incorporating more of the Z-axis as well. Badwater and Cashworks have shown varying height areas play really well in TF2 maps, and there'd be little reason not to do it if you're reworking those areas anyway.

    An idea that uses that... in the L-shape layout, have the bend be the lowest part of the map, with various tiers that you can work up to for access to the base. You obviously can't make it too far since it'll get huge and framerates will drop. However, something similar to arena_offblast's switchback (http://image.hazardstrip.com/ss/maps/168802.jpg) would work wonderfully... then the shortcut/main path between would be one or two large caves going between the halfway up the tiers. I can sketch it out if you'd like. My main suggestion is to try getting some significant height to the map, especially since it feels like you're already on top of a mountain. :D
     
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  15. Cerious

    Cerious L7: Fancy Member

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    Definitely redesign the middle portion as well as a bit of the base. Currently, you have a very linear design, similar to 2fort. I'd rather you have multiple ways to the battleground and to the intel and base, like in Badlands (which in my opinion is one of Valve's finest maps). Elevation variation, with small hills and passageways like in some of Hydro can also work well. In fact, the whole bit in Hydro with the hole in the center that is an instant kill is very similar to your cave, and you can try to pull something off like that in your next rendition of Aerospace.

    My idea, which combines a few elements of Hydro and Badlands, is one where there are two elevations, with a path leading to the upper and lower from both bases. At the upper path, there is a hole that leads to the bottom area. There are also naturally occuring pathways that lead up to the upper elevation area.
     
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  16. Nineaxis

    aa Nineaxis Quack Doctor

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    And in the next version, try and give the spawns a reasonable ceiling height and use the real garage doors :p
     
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  17. YM

    aa YM LVL100 YM

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    Like this:
    [​IMG]
    (obviously you'll have to use your imagination to make those middle bits more interesting :p)

    This too!

    Also, try to avoid the pit of death idea, just one of my pet hates.
     
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  18. HeaH

    HeaH L8: Fancy Shmancy Member

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    Argh, that sucks :( I like this map alot, it's the first CTF that I've ever enjoyed. The thing I like the most about it is that the intel is reachable easely. I think you should stick with that. The hard thing has to be the run from the base. I'm able to outrun everyone as a scout on your level because I play it so much, so maybe it's kinda too easy right now.

    Keep it so that getting to the intel is easy but getting away is hard.
     
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  19. Chilly

    Chilly L6: Sharp Member

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    I was thinking just a little differently than Youme, so here's my idea:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Basically you have two tiered hills sloping away from the bases. The main path between is at the middle tier, but it should be extremely exposed and dangerous. The lower route should be less exposed (more trees/buildings/rocks for cover?), but maybe the lower route could provide an alternate route in as well, like a rickety stairway up the side of the cliff to the base, or a tunnel and stairway?

    At the bottom you could possibly make use of your waterfall. If you keep the mountain/cliffs on the parts between the bases, it'll feel like the whole thing is built on a mountain. I'm going for vertical height and reduced sight-lines between the bases.
     
  20. Dox

    Dox L8: Fancy Shmancy Member

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    I think the exact opposite, the longer route should have the height advantage over the shorter route, thus giving the longer route an advantage, otherwise whats the point.