[WIP] ctf_Aerospace

Discussion in 'WIP (Work in Progress)' started by Arhurt, May 8, 2008.

  1. Cerious

    Cerious L7: Fancy Member

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    http://www.yinyarr.com/Community_Map_Vote.aspx

    ^ I saw that link on your FPSB page. I went ahead and voted for Aerospace, Freight, and Hoodoo. I looked at the results and you have 222 votes! :eek: Nice job man! A few fixes and this could be official quality!

    EDIT: Ah, and one more thing. Some people are saying the cave doesn't fit with TF2. Maybe you could take inspiration from Valve's tunnels, and make it seem like one of those mining tunnel/caves? It would greatly reduce file-size, improve frame-rate, and make the map seem more TF2-ish.
     
  2. Arhurt

    Arhurt L6: Sharp Member

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    Did you see this or where you typing as I posted?
     
  3. Cerious

    Cerious L7: Fancy Member

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    Hmm. About the caves, I'm suddenly thinking they should be removed. There are currently 3 passageways to the other base I'm seeing, each one equally large. There are the caves, the bridge (seems to be used rarely) or the hill. I don't think you really need 3 ways in, as most teams will split up because of it. Look at Steel in a public game: The teams often split up in three or four different ways, and that team usually loses. Decentralizing the map and spreading the routes may make the map look prettier (definitely in your map) but not so much in gameplay terms.

    However, if you look at 2fort, it works out nicely. The bridge can be used on lower ground for teams to pass, or jumped on with a scout to get a fast way in. The sewers is similar to your cave. However, that is only 2 ways into a base through that transition.

    Your map has 3 ways: A cave functioning like the sewers, the hills which teams often travel to make a direct assault, and the near useless bridge. I don't know why you added the bridge actually. If you limit the team's options on where to travel, then often the team can stick together more. I might be wrong on this, but that cave just doesn't feel right to me.
     
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  4. Chilly

    Chilly L6: Sharp Member

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    The cave is an excellent path for spies, since even if they bump into someone there's a good chance the opponent won't notice or be able to figure out where the spy went. I avoid the caves as every other class, though. My suggestion would be to leave them in but simplify them quite a bit so they're more open and the floor is less confusing. I understand it's a death trap, but unless you make a good reason for people to go in there they'll just avoid it. Another option would be to have the caves lead to a tunnel into each base. That would work similar to the sewers on 2Fort... useful to make it undetected into the enemy base but longer/more dangerous than the direct route.

    Then again, people might just need to learn the caves better in order to use them effectively. :)
     
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  5. Arhurt

    Arhurt L6: Sharp Member

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    Well one thing I noticed is that I released a version of the map where the playerclips visgroup for the cave was turned off when I compiled. That's why you can get in close to the crystals and it feels a lot more unsafe, as I had very good playerclips around the edges of the pits to prevent people from accidentally "sliding" in them.

    I'll meditate on this as well, but my initial stance is to keep it (but compile the freaking clips next time!)
     
  6. Dox

    Dox L8: Fancy Shmancy Member

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    3 ways in tends to be a standard, also if the team splits up, thats the fault of the team, not always the mapper. A good team sticks together and co-ordinates attacks and defense.
     
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  7. Arhurt

    Arhurt L6: Sharp Member

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    Yeah but as level designers I belive we should design the maps to "teach" or "coach" our less than optimal players. A good team would be a good team no matter the environment. A bunch of random players, on the other hand, can work as a good team on a properly laid out environment.
     
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  8. Cerious

    Cerious L7: Fancy Member

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    Definitely agreed. A large, open map with many passageways doesn't work for new players.
     
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  9. ColdFire

    ColdFire L2: Junior Member

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    I think my players mostly use the bridge. I did.
     
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  10. Username

    Username L2: Junior Member

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    First off, that strategy guide was top-notch. Loved the nod to cake. ;) I'm just about to enter a game playing it, so I'll be back soon with my review.
     
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  11. Arhurt

    Arhurt L6: Sharp Member

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    Thanks. Sorry for the spelling mistakes and weird sentence building. Comes with the heritage :)

    And here is definite proof that someone used the bridge :p

    [​IMG]

    But seriously, I think that the way you can fall down to one of the lower paths if you run into an undesirable foe works quite well. But only more playtesting will reveal that.
     
  12. Arhurt

    Arhurt L6: Sharp Member

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  13. Nineaxis

    aa Nineaxis Quack Doctor

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    Strategy guide was great, creative way to promote your map.

    Video wasn't as good. :p
     
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  14. Username

    Username L2: Junior Member

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    Well, if you want someone to proofread the guide, send me the text, and I'll give it a look.
     
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  15. Uriak

    Uriak L8: Fancy Shmancy Member

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    We had at last a test with our 24 p server; Most of the game occured in a 6vs6 configuration though, while people dowloaded the map.

    First, let's tell you that people found your layout impressive, especially the planes and the caves. The upper passages are well thoughs as well. Flight soundscape and work on the skybox are totally badass.

    Still, even if the game ended with a 3-2 score (but thanks for the scouts at start) the pace of the game was quite dull. Maybe this map is not really accessible to 24 servers, or with great teamplay. People can easily spread along the no man'land, with the caves, the exterior passages and the bridge (yes, it did have some use ;) ) The CTF mode itself has many drawbacks in our opinion, and I can't say aerospace changed our mind on this. I couldn't say that your map is too big, because it's not really, but id does not tend to gather people in a few spots.

    To point at things you should fix in all case, first the final zone is really, really crammed with props, to the point it's quite distracting and detrimental for quick action. Rocket jumping on the catwalks can be frustrating with all this solid cables found along them. This zone is quite narrow, you shouldn't have to fill it up to this extent. And consider setting some props to "no collision". Then, in many zones you have spots that will either trap people or cause them to stop and jump. (small wooden passages with tires, some slopes with trees, etc). Clipping brushes will be your best friend there. Consider each time a players sees its movement stopped by some "unsignificant" obstacle, it pisses him off.
    CTF above all game modes should reward fast pace, so help people keep it to give them incentive to love the map.
     
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    Last edited: Oct 22, 2008
  16. Arhurt

    Arhurt L6: Sharp Member

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    Thanks Uriak.

    I'm reworking the inside of the Hangar to make it easier to move around.
     
  17. Uriak

    Uriak L8: Fancy Shmancy Member

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    Good luck, I'll ask for another trial when you'll be done. Players loved the context so they'll surely ask for it.
     
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  18. Nineaxis

    aa Nineaxis Quack Doctor

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    That's good, I still think inside it is too visually and physically cluttered. What I hate most of all is coming out of the spawn, there's a set of roller-stairs than you have to walk around a plane to go up, and it takes just as long trying to jump over the welding machine/plane wing as walking around.
     
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  19. Arhurt

    Arhurt L6: Sharp Member

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    I know. You had brought this up before, but I was so caught up in my level designer shell that I didn't listen. Now that it has been broken (as I hope the total rework of the map proved) I'm more open to suggestions. Live and learn they say... I'm also changing the stairs in the spawn so that you don't have to walk around them, rather just straight.
     
  20. Arhurt

    Arhurt L6: Sharp Member

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    Here's the changelog so far for Beta 3

    How long should I wait before releasing it? The fixes above are all done and tested, and I could release it today or tomorrow, but would it bee too soon? (it's been only a week since b2)
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2008