[WIP]cpl_snaketemple

[Uriak]

It could mix gray red and blu with some extra work and the assumption that the initial configuration is perfectly known. But since I've chosen for simplicity reasons to start the game with two CP owned by each team, and the neutral state is quite meaningless in this kind of game, I've stuck with the blu and red HUD. Of course people have to know the rotation is anti trigo (or clockwise) but this is really easy to understand once a cart pass its first check point. Then it's quite easy to know where are the carts and what distance remains between them. Doing something more advanced is difficult because using more states for the control point would mean I use their neutral state, and that would look odd. Of course I could go with hidden CP models instead but I think they are important for players : they know that passing this point means changing a spawn room ownership.

For the opening I've tried filling it with sewed displacements, instead of relying on stone details as I've done for all other entrances. But it's too square, and subdivide is a disaster in that area (though it works perfectly for other parts of the cliff). I don't know if I should edit this until I reach some more natural look or if I should use some detail brushes in some way.

 

[Uriak]

So I discovered that somehow the cable preview in hammer doesn't match exactly the wires in game. That made this little bridge thingie all the more tedious to complete. And it gave me the opportunity to try shmitz lightmap tutorial, at least a little bit. Most corridor shapes have been redone and rounded a bit for easier access. After completing lighting and removed most obvious texture issues, I'll have a second gameplay alpha ready.

 

[Gadget]

I like that bridge. Which material did you use for the ropes?

 

[laghlagh]

Heh, don't know if you've noticed, but that screen looks very much like the the first stage of dustbowl !(

)

 

[Uriak]

I used cable/rope. For dustbowl, I didn't catch any specific inspiration. It's a railway at the bottom of small cliffs, that's all

 

[Uriak]

not so much today... and hammer crashed badly at the end, thus impeding me test my newer trims. Anyway, a top view of the half reworked map. It shows particularly the new catwalks. I still have to decide the exact way the spawns are linked to the main path.

 

[Uriak]

The main gameplay issue seems to revolve around spawn killing. Since each cap point controlling spawn rooms is not so far from the spawns itself, a team winning the match is tempted to camp this capture point while pushing its cart. The "defenders" are having a rough time in the meanwhile. But at the same time, upper exit for spawns allows broken defense.

I'm considering adding a set of rooms between the spawns and the main path. Upper access will be granted and hopefully, they'll allow to fight without involving real spawnkill. The respawn wave time will be also toned down, since one can't directly jump from spawn to the rail path.

From the decoration view point, the spawn room itself will be a room borded by a chasm/lake (depending the temple) finishing into the depths of un unlit area . I'd like to give a sense that the team recently sat a camp in there, with crates, generators, tools...

The canyon is more tricky. Maybe I'll ad a bunch of wood platforms/rooms in the dead end of the canyon (the large round part near the red wooden roofs). They'll would act as an intermediate zone between spawn room and the battlefield.

 

[Uriak]

The temple spawn at its present state... not too happy with a number of things, but here's the general feeling.

 

[Uriak]

I apologize for the unseen screens. :crying: Waiting for tof.canarplus to come back online.

I originally though of making the central spawns as little holes in the cliff mountain, sourrounded by plants and rocks. But since people told me cowards could stay up there when their team is loosing, I'm considering turning them into a sharply slopped tunnel sending people directly onto the water

 

[Vicenti]

What if you expand the 'safe zone' from each spawn building? Right now the teams can't enter the spawn building, but what if you cordon off a larger area, so the spawning players have more room to evade spawncampers? I.e., put visualizers over the entrances to the section of level that contains each team's current spawn building.

Just an idea.

 

[Uriak]

In the current playtest version, the spawns have both direct and undirect exits, with each one having the vizualizers. That gives people a "safe" zone to choose their main exit.
Issues are that either those exits are easily camped by ennemy players, or they are overpowered for players sniping or nading from their safe zone.

That's why I'm shrinking the "real" safe zone to the spawn itself and introducing some rooms allowing players to chose their path to the battlefield. These rooms are acessible to the other players, to allows spies (for instance) to take out defending players using exits to shoot people in the main battlefield. Of course, even if they aren't real safe zones, they should be friendly ground for spawning players. (think of dustbowl "post spawn" areas of the blu team)

So objectives are :
->separate spawns from the real battlefield
->impeding players to defend their objective from a safe zone
->avoid tempting players to spawncamp for winning (or at least make spawnkill a voluntary move istead of creating dubious situations like in 2forts)

 

[ColdFire]

So objectives are :
->separate spawns from the real battlefield
->impeding players to defend their objective from a safe zone
->avoid tempting players to spawncamp for winning (or at least make spawnkill a voluntary move istead of creating dubious situations like in 2forts)

It's a big problem for lot of maps, so I'm curious to see how you're gonna do that

 

[Uriak]

here's the same spot now. (if you don't see anything, blame my host )

 

[Uriak]

Today, the new gameplay alpha will be out. It should be the last major gameplay revision. The basis of the final decoration is set. Still more custom content will be required sooner or later.

 

[laghlagh]

Wow that looks badass.

 

[Uriak]

Still issues with collision, especially within the narrower parts of the track. Players seem to enjoy the playtest version but I don't have precise feedback. bah. I'll just put the whole thing into stand by until I learn more.

I have concern with the "dirty tricks" people may use within the game. For instance, setting the central watery part into "nobuild" may be necessary. Engies have a better time though, and cart progression can be hindered quite efficiently with a minimal support.

 

[Randdalf]

I assume you're going to turn the blocky ground into the cave into displacements? If so, this map will look pretty neat.

 

[Uriak]

By caves you mean the central room or both underground part of the track ? The former is already covered by displacement, though still squary. For the latters, I'm going to have a mix of carved/built stone walls and more rough looking parts - displacements that is.

 

[Uriak]

So one tedious bug I keep being reported is the cart refusing to move when after an ennemy has been blocking it. I believe that the capture_area don't always trigger its OnNumCapperChanged calls after it has been enabled (the blocking trigger disables the capture trigger).

I plan to use math_counter to store the state of a capture zone, but it may introduce its own flaws. Anyone know if it's possible to get the number of people capping a point without waiting for a OnNumCappersChanged event ?

 

[Uriak]

I'm a bit discouraged at the moment. The collision problem doesn't bother me much, but people keep reporting (Or should I say I have to make them tell me) that without a team able to define a strategy, this map is boring. Scarce players try to block the ennemy teams and the two cart ends up running in circles without much action. Of course when players have a bit of organization and tries to setup ambushes and choke points, it's quite different.

Most propositions that were said means more or less giving up with the core gameplay of this map. Because I don't want to (I'd rather let this project die) I'm keeping up with some last fixes

->to avoid the unfair advantage of attacking people, I'm getting ridd of the carts' dispensers.
->to encourage commandos trying to block the other cart I'll try to set up a special über speed mecanic. Blocking the cart will progressively fill a "über gauge" for its own team. When it its 100% the corresponding cart will rush at full speed, without any help of players and hurting anyone around it for some times (10-15s maybe). Any blocking tentative will add up to this kind of powerup, in order to give "commando" players a gratification.

Of course I'm also told that complexifying the map is only a large waste of time. But if no matter what, if I've to conclude that average players won't adopt any gameplay variation, I may give up already. What do you think ?