[WIP] cp_oilrig - approaching beta 5

[ColdFire]

Seems great. Maybe release two versions, one during day, one during night, as some like it at night, other don't
For your next beta release, I'll put it on my server like preb5test and you'll have the sourcetv file the day after, like I did a couple days ago.
And if you ask kindly, maybe I'll do a psychostats deathmap (and if I'm not too lazy)

 

[Open Blade]

the night skybox version will be available with the next release again...

right now I'm thinking about the simplification of the layout and how to make it more straight forward. I'm probably going to do three layers (one for each CP) so you can fight from the bottom to the top of the oil rig.

In my opinion, the best route layouts are where the main path is 100% easy to follow. I love the 2nd and 3rd routes when they are sneaky and small but it only works if the main route is more then obvious.

 

[Gadget]

here's some new stuff I'm working on. As you can see there's not a lot of details so far but I'm going to create the basic layout first. Blu will spawn below the oil rig in this area:

 

[ColdFire]

That's a pretty good idea to make blu spawn at water level. But in this case maybe you'd need forward spawns as they capture A then B, as it could take them too long to go to the "active" point when they respawn.
Or enable some quick lifts as they capture points?
And you may add some fake "cheap-looking" submarine, like they came from here. I even have a stupider idea: a blu submarine with a red mask, like spies

 

[Gadget]

funny idea with the mask

there will be forward spawns of course and maybe some boat or submarine. I've already built in one elevator and yet I have to decide how far I'm going to extend that.

 

[ColdFire]

Sorry I'm late:

here is the death map for pre-b5-test: http://www.coldfire.info/psycho/mapheat.php?id=43
And I've done the one for the ol'b3: http://www.coldfire.info/psycho/mapheat.php?id=17

For my community, B is now the hardest point to attack, while it was A on b3

Any news on your next beta?

 

[laghlagh]

I'm just gonna jump in here, without even having played the map, saying: Holy shit this looks great!

 

[Gadget]

thanks a lot for the death maps!

here's some new material:

CP A, route from the right


CP A, route from the left


CP A, where red's coming in


route 1 and 2 from A to B


exit on top of the stairs from the screenshot above


center fighting area 1 from A to B, elevator comes up behind the doorway on the right


another view of that area, coming from the elevator


Control point B is not finished yet and I have so much space left that I could easily do a dustbowl style map with 3 stages and 2 CPs each. What would you prefer to play - 3 single control points or 3 rounds with 2 control points each?

 

[VelvetFistIronGlove]

I would say the ideal difficulty (assuming that points A, B, C are attacked in order) is B most difficult, followed by C, then A the easiest to capture.

 

[ColdFire]

thanks a lot for the death maps!
Control point B is not finished yet and I have so much space left that I could easily do a dustbowl style map with 3 stages and 2 CPs each. What would you prefer to play - 3 single control points or 3 rounds with 2 control points each?

3 rounds with 2 CP each, maybe each round will be quite small?
But it would make action quicker IF CPs are not too hard to capture

I'd say we're used to a 3 CP map, guess you should stay that way

With your screenshots, it's quite hard to recognize oilrig, can I have a beta or overview screenshots?

 

[Gadget]

Here's a map for testing of the new layout... I decided to go for dustbowl style and it's the first stage with two control points. I know it doesn't look very pretty so far but from my previous work you can tell that I know how to do my job quite well. So I'd like to read some comments about the gameplay in the first place. Are there any bottlenecks? Which area is fun to play and which is not (and why)? Is there any need to place func_nobuilds (and where)? Any bugs or crashes? Elevator - good or bad? Any classes over- or underpowered? Et cetera...

some screenies:

| | | | | |

Download cp_oilrig_preb5xviii (9,37 MB zip)

 

[ColdFire]

Can people fall in the water and die? It would be a lot of fun is somewhere you could push people over the fences and make them drawn

Hmm, you forgot the clicky download link

 

[YM]

Two screenies that stuck out particularly:
http://www.manschitz.com/projects/tf2/cp_oilrig_preb5xviii0000.jpg
http://www.manschitz.com/projects/tf2/cp_oilrig_preb5xviii0007.jpg

Both of those seem quite wide open and quite bland, the lighting on the last one also is horrible, its really dark and you've got a few spots of intense white, try to even it out some more, perhaps make the outer angle on the existing lights much wider?
All of the new screenshots look quite bland actually, but I'm sure you already know that and have lots of props to spice them up with.

 

[Gadget]

Yes, as I said I want to test the gameplay first before I do add any more stuff. For the lights you're right - I didn't tweak them so far, only basic lighting. I'm going to remove those bright spots by decreasing the brightness value. In the dark areas I'm going to put some lights in addition to the light_spots. Those two screenshots you mentioned are the spawn areas so it's not really a problem that they are more open than the other areas. And of course there will be lots of details later...

Falling into the water will not be possible I think. I've tested this before with a trigger_hurt in the water but most people complained about it and it was no fun. Also it feels a little unreal to die from falling into simple water.

 

[VelvetFistIronGlove]

I just ran around it for 10 minutes. I'm confused about a couple of things:

1. How does this relate to your earlier versions of cp_oilrig? It looks like a complete redesign, and I'm not sure that was needed.

2. For blu, getting to cp1 is straightforward enough; however there seems to be no clear direction to get from there to cp2, and there are numerous side passages which either end in dead ends or double back and take you back to the cp 1 area (even though when you enter them they would seem to lead forward).

Obviously, signs will help in navigating; but the layout ought to be relatively intuitive without them (consider dustbowl in this respect, or badwater, or (dare I say it?) siege). Since you do seem to have started from scratch, I would suggest paying close attention to making the paths more obvious.

3. It also seems to be a very long distance from point A to B: it took me 20 seconds to run between them as a scout, and would take a soldier or heavy nearly twice that. There may have been a shorter route, but I couldn't find it.

Edit: Dustbowl as a scout takes 9 seconds from A > B on stage 1, 12 seconds on stage 2, and 11 seconds on stage 3.

 

[ColdFire]

Well, I must say that I loved cp_oilrig_b3 like it was, and debugged and with some build restrictions on A it would have been fantastic.

"b5" was good, but I'm not sure I like the way it becomes (I've just seen the screenshots, I'll test the new build this week-end. Guess I'll put it on my server to know what my players think)

 

[ColdFire]

Yes, as I said I want to test the gameplay first before I do add any more stuff. For the lights you're right - I didn't tweak them so far, only basic lighting. I'm going to remove those bright spots by decreasing the brightness value. In the dark areas I'm going to put some lights in addition to the light_spots. Those two screenshots you mentioned are the spawn areas so it's not really a problem that they are more open than the other areas. And of course there will be lots of details later...

Falling into the water will not be possible I think. I've tested this before with a trigger_hurt in the water but most people complained about it and it was no fun. Also it feels a little unreal to die from falling into simple water.

Do like Shmitz in meridian: steal his shark and put some in the water (just kidding about stealing)

 

[Gadget]

1. I just wanted to see what I could come up with by a redesign - mainly if I could create gameplay that is more fun and build a map that is easier to optimise and better in it's performance. Now I'm waiting for the results of the game days. If everyone agrees that it's not good I'm probably going back to the older version. For those areas that were in beta3, I'm going to add some of that stuff (like the radar builing, the big red one, smoke stack and so on) to stages two and three in the new map.

2. There's definately need for some direction signs, I agree. I just wasn't able to put them in before the game day submission deadline. Those dead ends you mentioned will open after capturing A. Guess I have to pay even more attention to directions.

3. I added a forward spawn for blu so you won't have that long distance after capturing A.

 

[ColdFire]

I finally took the time to test your last build, with stage 1

Most of the time, the comment is in the picture.
I forgot to take one pic, so here's another problem; the elevator next to the first cap seems not to be working.


Ramp to redo, add something to show that you can't go over all the platform


Same thing here, maybe add some kind of door like the barrier, showing it can be opened but at this very moment it's closed.


You chose the wrong racks, use the blu ones.


Make this path larger, you can't dodge rockets and grenades here. Maybe add a 3rd path, usable only with scout double jump and soldier's RJ?


I forgot what I wanted to say here, but there was something wrong. Maybe a non-working door.


I think you should make the first CP longer to cap.


There's a problem with the door: it doesn't open, but you can hear it opening. Strange. Maybe because there's a "do not pass" sign on the other side?


This path seems to be blocked for both red and blu


Light problem on the doors


Shadow problem with the resupply?


Clipping problem between the er... tube and the fence


zOMG we're going to have 154 stages if we have to go up there!

You're gonna have to add hundreds of signs if you don't want people to be lost. Between first and 2nd cp, and from red spawn, it's a labyrinth

 

[Gadget]

alright, guess I'm going back to the old one then...