PL whitepeak

Discussion in 'Map Factory' started by Loc_n_lol, Oct 25, 2010.

  1. Loc_n_lol

    Loc_n_lol L10: Glamorous Member

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    My first attempt at a payload map. :O

    The plan : 2 stages, 5 checkpoints. (Mostly because I think a third stage is largely redundant, and I like how breaking down in two stages gives RED one chance to re-setup and recover from a steamroll).
    Theme : alpine, snowy, night time.

    Background : RED have turned an abandonned mining village into one of their spy bases, BLU must push their bomb cart through the village and abandonned tunnels to blow RED's radio tower and control room from below.

    General idea : nothing too wild, payload cart takes the low route, high ground flanking routes and defensive alcoves in the surrounding buildings with a handful of chokes around checkpoints, more emphasis on optimization -unlike watermill-, a few obligatory rollbacks for a mountain map.

    Uses Tyker's snowcart model.
    The goldsource-quality skybox is because the real one weighs several times more than the rest of the bsp so far...:rolleyes:


    Detailed changelog :

    a1:
    -Blocked out stage 1, first draft

    a2 :
    -Recut railings to allow easy dropdowns/shooting where fitting
    -Moved one exit on BLU spawn (the high one) to make it harder to lockdown and a little less interesting for BLU at the same time.
    -Setup gates are no longer triggered by players, they will remain open forever after the end of setup (allowing a cloaked BLU spy to pass relatively unnoticed, for example).
    -Choke-ified around A while making it less easy for red to lock BLU inside their spawn from high ground, hopefully giving an incentive to move the defense a little backwards and giving them a place to retreat when BLU punches through.
    -Lenghtened the rollback slopes to make them more significant.

    a3 :
    -Blocked out stage 2
    -Fixed setup gates not opening properly.
    -Rollback zones are now marked with yellow stripes
    -Added a 1-way flanking route for BLU around Stage 1 Cap B (opens up afer capping A)
    -Increased respawn time advantage for BLU on Stage 1 Cap B to 2s vs 10s (was 3-9)
    -Reduced available health/metal immediately around Stage 1 Cap B
    -Minor layout and cosmetic changes I'm too lazy to detail.

    a4 :
    -Re-opened the right path in stage 1, cap 1 as the sentry spot here wasnt really used anyway
    -Moved up protective fences on stage 1 setup, to offer better cover from generic spam from the stairs.
    -Fixed time not being added when capping stage 1 cap 2
    -Reduced the amount of time added on most checkpoints
    -Capped the max amount of time to 9 minutes
    -Replaced the first overpass over stage 1 cap 2 with an uncovered bridge, it was a poor sentry location anyway as red doesn't have time to setup here after losing cap 1.
    -Removed a flanking route on stage 1 cap 2 to make up for the one opened in cap 1.
    -Extended high catwalk to make it easier to bypass the alcove on stage 1 cap 1. The cart still needs to move in front of it, though.
    -Fixed broken BLU spawns in stage 2 :facepalm:
    -Moved the one way door in the flanking route on stage 2 cap 3, to prevent possible abusive use of a sentry behind 1way doors.
    -Added some rock props wherever fit, as they do affect gameplay.
    -Some clipping issues resolved.
    -More minor layout and cosmetic changes I'm too lazy to detail.
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2010
  2. nik

    nik L12: Fabulous Member

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    gotta love the lightbulbs on a wire!

    no but seriously, this looks pretty good for your first payload!
     
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  3. Scotland Tom

    Scotland Tom L6: Sharp Member

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    Looks pretty good and well constructed from what I can see in the screenshots so far. I like the lightbulbs on wires, but use them sparingly. They're a nice accent, but one of those things that could easily be overused if you're not careful.
     
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  4. Loc_n_lol

    Loc_n_lol L10: Glamorous Member

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    Well, the idea was to have them hanging along the whole main road, I just filled three wires to get an idea, I'll keep that in mind, way too soon to really try it anyway, for all I know I'll have to (re)move some of the buildings around, and the wires with them. :p
     
  5. Mr. Wimples

    Mr. Wimples L6: Sharp Member

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    In B4 christmas-themed payload.
     
  6. Mr.Blob

    Mr.Blob L8: Fancy Shmancy Member

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    It looks very nice :D
     
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  7. grazr

    aa grazr Old Man Mutant Ninja Turtle

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    Not a fan of the hanging lights. It looked pants when SWATY did it and it looks pants here :( but your layout looks interesting and well scaled.

    I'd also recommend removing the tiny fences, for the most part they just get in the way of player movement and provide little additional cover. An edge without a fence can provide plenty cover and doesn't make it difficult to shoot down onto players.
     
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  8. tyler

    aa tyler snail prince, master of a ruined tower

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  9. honeymustard

    honeymustard L9: Fashionable Member

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    Looks like there's too many - look at pipeline as a good example of how to use them.
     
  10. grazr

    aa grazr Old Man Mutant Ninja Turtle

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    I'm not saying these things don't exist practically, but i've never seen them look nice in a TF2 map. I just think they look silly and are overly distracting, particularly for a part of your detail budget that can be better executed in more appropriate locations. As a detailing trend, details should be focused at areas of gameplay interest: Objectives, doorways, or the horizon (out of bounds). Players will rarely look directly up; if there's no places of gameplay interest like ledges to force them to look out for other players, or an objective prop worth looking up at, the detail isn't justified.

    (an example of prioritised detail, the windows on the tower in badwater arn't set into the brush geomtry, because nobody looks up there's no point in cutting up the brush face into X extra polygons even though if they do they can see the empty back of the window props).

    If they were hung from an awning or lining a route through some snowy, rocky displacement hills (like guide lights) i could maybe justify their presence besides it looking like some corny festival decoration. Pipeline gets away with it because sometimes refinaries/power stations use them to illuminate catwalks (it's cheap and effective for large scale industrial installations). Also, the image i linked is a local prominade and is only turned on for Christmas, which probably shows my biased opinion on them looking like corny decorations.
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2010
  11. tyler

    aa tyler snail prince, master of a ruined tower

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    Pipeline does it at the cap point, right? That's probably justified.

    Anyway, I agree with honeymustard that there are too many bulbs and the wires are too close together.

    If Loc uses it at key areas, I think it'd be alright so long as he loses a couple bulbs. Like he said anyway, it was a test. Later implementations'll probably look better.
     
  12. Loc_n_lol

    Loc_n_lol L10: Glamorous Member

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    Well, huh, yes. I can't deny that's part of the idea behind it, at least for the look-and-feel. I'm trying not to make a gimmick map, though. I mean the immediately available maps don't make you want to go out and say, "I'm making a christmas map !!11", because they're all more or less terrible.

    I thought the hanging lights looked nice in pipeline stage 2, though a little out of place in this context, so I figured I'd give them a try. But nothing is set in stone at this early stage.

    EDIT: yes, I guess I'll leave the wires, but probably only put hanging bulbs on like every other one at most.
     
  13. Mr. Wimples

    Mr. Wimples L6: Sharp Member

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    Not that I'd like to sway you in any way...
    but you should totally make the cart a present bomb and the final cap a giant tree.
    ...but that's just me.
     
  14. Tyker

    Tyker L5: Dapper Member

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    Most christmas maps are made just to be for christmas, there isn't any gameplay idea behind them. If you make it fun first and then make it christmas style, you'll be fine.
     
  15. absurdistof

    aa absurdistof

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    As far as the light debacle goes, I like them. As far as the map goes, I like it. The little mini-brush-railings could possibly be frustrating but we shall see myes :)
     
  16. Loc_n_lol

    Loc_n_lol L10: Glamorous Member

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    With only one round on each side, very imbalanced teams, and visibly tired players that wasn't an ideal playtest but I think I identified a few possible problems

    a2 :
    -recut railings to allow easy dropdowns/shooting where fitting
    -moved one exit on BLU spawn (the high one) to make it harder to lockdown and a little less interesting for BLU at the same time.
    -Setup gates are no longer triggered by players, they will remain open forever after the end of setup (allowing a cloaked BLU spy to pass relatively unnoticed, for example).
    -Choke-ified around A while making it less easy for red to lock BLU inside their spawn from high ground, hopefully giving an incentive to move the defense a little backwards and giving them a place to retreat when BLU punches through.
    -Lenghtened the rollback slopes to make them more significant.
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2010
  17. Wilson

    aa Wilson Burial by Sleep

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    I approve this map, it was really fun, managed to pull of 30 kills 0 deaths demoman spree on first round.
    Also, that room in blue spawn is amazing, it has top notch detailing!
     
  18. Loc_n_lol

    Loc_n_lol L10: Glamorous Member

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    You're not helping, I can't tell which part *if any* of your post is serious...
    If you have something to say then say it like it is.
     
  19. Wilson

    aa Wilson Burial by Sleep

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    What happen to the times when you could tell you think map is fine without having to sound super serious? :(

    Okay, i liked the map, it has good amount of height difference and flanking routes. My only problem is really small, it is that setup gates stay closed 3 seconds after rounds starts.
     
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  20. Loc_n_lol

    Loc_n_lol L10: Glamorous Member

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    Fair enough.:mellow:
    It's just that the comment on the 'detail room' and your amazing killing spree made it sound like your whole post might have been : "This map is a terrible demospam fest and looks like shit. You should give up and be ashamed, I'll just leave a snark remark here". :O

    Yes I'm aware of the spawn gate issue, I just didn't have time to update before the gameday (and I also forgot cubemaps). I'm aware the small room in BLU spawn is empty and without lighting, I'm aware the skybox is only 256p, the real one is 1024p but it's three times the filesize of the rest of the map so far, so I wanted to minimize download size for testing.