Warfare
- Thread starter Gadget
- Start date
DrHaphazard
L5: Dapper Member
- Jan 6, 2008
- 249
- 12
I agree that warpath as a direct port from the TFC version does not flow very well in TF2. That being said, however, i played the original warpath in TFC and loved it. To my knowledge it was the first 5cp map in existence, and i loved at the time how you could push the other team back rather than simply scaling the ramparts of their fort.
My main complaint against warpath today is not so much its spaminess, there are official maps that suffer from the same problem, but rather its the amount of time it takes you to get back into the fight when you die. In my opinion the fault lies mainly in the distance between the first spawn and second capture points. I emphasize spawn here because obviously thats where you start the round and where defenders of the last point start. In general I think that stalemates occur between 4th and 5th capture point because it takes a long time for the defenders to get to their second point and a long time for the attackers to get to their 5th point.
I went to time some things at cp_granary (which i think most agree is the best balanced of the official cp maps) and heres what i found. All these times are scouts using the quickest route.
1st spawn to 2nd cp ~ 10 seconds
1st spawn to 3rd cp ~ 20 seconds
2nd cp to 3rd cp ~ 10 seconds
4th cp to 5th cp ~ 6 seconds
Now to look at the ported cp_warpath...
1st spawn to 2nd cp ~ 19 seconds
1st spawn to 3rd cp ~ 27 seconds
2nd cp to 3rd cp ~ 9 seconds
4th cp to 5th cp ~ 15 seconds
And cp_warfare...
1st spawn to 2nd cp ~ 16 seconds
1st spawn to 3rd cp ~ 24 seconds
2nd cp to 3rd cp ~ 9 seconds
4th cp to 5th cp ~ 12 seconds
EDIT: just to satisfy my curiosity cp_badlands looks like this
1st spawn to 2nd cp ~ 13 seconds
1st spawn to 3rd cp ~ 14 seconds (this is the interesting part, almost same time as it takes to get to 2nd)
2nd cp to 3rd cp ~ 7-9 seconds (faster from 2>3 than it is 3>2)
4th cp to 5th cp ~ 9 seconds
In short, you have improved the original spawn location, so now its no longer retardedly around a corner, which is great. I think, however, that the problem lies between the 1st and second points. In granary that distance is very short, making it difficult for defenders and therefore not leaning towards too many stalemates. Conversly though, a good push by the defenders doesnt have to slog too far to get to their 2nd point.
I guess what i am trying to ask is if theres any way to shorten that distance between 2nd and 1st? Perhaps i leave myself open to complaints that then youre just making another granary, but i think the architecture of the map precludes that.
My main complaint against warpath today is not so much its spaminess, there are official maps that suffer from the same problem, but rather its the amount of time it takes you to get back into the fight when you die. In my opinion the fault lies mainly in the distance between the first spawn and second capture points. I emphasize spawn here because obviously thats where you start the round and where defenders of the last point start. In general I think that stalemates occur between 4th and 5th capture point because it takes a long time for the defenders to get to their second point and a long time for the attackers to get to their 5th point.
I went to time some things at cp_granary (which i think most agree is the best balanced of the official cp maps) and heres what i found. All these times are scouts using the quickest route.
1st spawn to 2nd cp ~ 10 seconds
1st spawn to 3rd cp ~ 20 seconds
2nd cp to 3rd cp ~ 10 seconds
4th cp to 5th cp ~ 6 seconds
Now to look at the ported cp_warpath...
1st spawn to 2nd cp ~ 19 seconds
1st spawn to 3rd cp ~ 27 seconds
2nd cp to 3rd cp ~ 9 seconds
4th cp to 5th cp ~ 15 seconds
And cp_warfare...
1st spawn to 2nd cp ~ 16 seconds
1st spawn to 3rd cp ~ 24 seconds
2nd cp to 3rd cp ~ 9 seconds
4th cp to 5th cp ~ 12 seconds
EDIT: just to satisfy my curiosity cp_badlands looks like this
1st spawn to 2nd cp ~ 13 seconds
1st spawn to 3rd cp ~ 14 seconds (this is the interesting part, almost same time as it takes to get to 2nd)
2nd cp to 3rd cp ~ 7-9 seconds (faster from 2>3 than it is 3>2)
4th cp to 5th cp ~ 9 seconds
In short, you have improved the original spawn location, so now its no longer retardedly around a corner, which is great. I think, however, that the problem lies between the 1st and second points. In granary that distance is very short, making it difficult for defenders and therefore not leaning towards too many stalemates. Conversly though, a good push by the defenders doesnt have to slog too far to get to their 2nd point.
I guess what i am trying to ask is if theres any way to shorten that distance between 2nd and 1st? Perhaps i leave myself open to complaints that then youre just making another granary, but i think the architecture of the map precludes that.
Last edited:
I like it, I dont know what changed i only played the last 10 minutes of gameday troday, the final point was far too hard to capture, I'd suggest a combination of three things:
-Drasticly reducing blue spawn time (10 seconds is too long once you reach the final point)
-shortening the distance from the last blu forward spawn (or cap 4) to the final point
-increasing the distance between red's spawn and the final point.
-Drasticly reducing blue spawn time (10 seconds is too long once you reach the final point)
-shortening the distance from the last blu forward spawn (or cap 4) to the final point
-increasing the distance between red's spawn and the final point.
Updated to Alpha 3.
Conclusions from yesterday's game day:
- Red managed to defend the base and capture the next point (which I've never seen happen on regular warpath) - just what I wanted
- Distance between 1 and 2 is still pretty far but I don't think that's a problem (gives scouts and spies a better chance to recapture the point)
- Next release will have some signage
- Set owners of CP 2 and 4 so you don't have to capture them at round start
- Remove setup time
- Need to see more testing to make some serious decisions
Conclusions from yesterday's game day:
- Red managed to defend the base and capture the next point (which I've never seen happen on regular warpath) - just what I wanted
- Distance between 1 and 2 is still pretty far but I don't think that's a problem (gives scouts and spies a better chance to recapture the point)
- Next release will have some signage
- Set owners of CP 2 and 4 so you don't have to capture them at round start
- Remove setup time
- Need to see more testing to make some serious decisions
Is there a download for this map anywhere?