Vertex Tool Problems

Discussion in 'Mapping Questions & Discussion' started by Masier_koniak, Apr 1, 2017.

  1. Masier_koniak

    Masier_koniak L1: Registered

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    Howdy.
    Before I start, just wanted to point out that I'm a complete newbie to TF2 Mapping, I just watched some vidoes of Crash and thought "Holy cow, now I can make my OWN maps!111!1". I'm new to this forum as well, so sorry if I'm posting the same thing like 23 users before me. I just want an answer, because this bug is the only reason why i have 7 maps now, and noone of them is finished :(

    So the problem is, whenever I save a map that has blocks edited with Vertex Tool (which I found very helpful, but broken) they look different in-game. The same happens when I re-open Hammer, and I don't know what the heck is wrong.

    How it looks before I run map.
    Bez tytułu.png

    So far, no crashes. However, it looks unrealistic.

    Bez tytułu.png

    Now, let's try to make it slightly more realistic with the Vertex Tool.

    Bez tytułu.png

    Looks way better, more realistic, at least for me, but...

    Bez tytułu.png

    Welp... You get the point.

    Of course, I can make maps (I do them just for myself to play with bots on them, so) without this annoying Vertex but they look kinda ugly and unnatural...
     
  2. Micnax

    aa Micnax I maek map

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  3. Crowbar

    aa Crowbar perfektoberfest

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    You are making non planar faces! There's some geometry involved in determining whether your vertex editing is going to result in a valid solid (all faces planar and it is convex), but I guess that comes anyway.
    If your solid is invalid (you can check the existence of such with Alt-P error checker), Hammer, before saving map or compiling, will try to make the solid valid by moving vertices around so they make a valid shape.
    With non planar faces, you can mostly be getting away with triangulating them (by selecting pairs of vertices which you need connected). If a quad is non planar, one way to triangulate it will result in a convex shape and the other will result in a concave one (takes some stereometry to prove, but it's true), so you'll always find a way.
    If the shape however is obviously concave and needs to be kept that way, you're gonna need it made up by several brushes.
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2017
  4. Pocket

    aa Pocket func_croc

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    And to think, this is how Valve actually had to do it back in the GoldSrc days...