CTF Undermine rc2

[Jonny]

Hello again,

I've been working hard on some significant changes to my map, which are nearly finished and ready for testing again. I've taken into account every bit of feedback I could when making the changes, while considering what's best for the level.

Firstly i have something to ask someone called ZOMBIE - as he playtested my map and mentioned something about lots of props with no collision models? Whatever that means the way you said it sounded bad and I hope you can let me know. Thankyou

Also, the "sewer" path is too long. A path that long should be really powerful, but it goes right through the same atrium all the other paths do.

This path has now gone and is replaced with one tunneling straight to the intel rooms.

A single sentry in the atruim can block almost all routes in and out.

One less route now goes into this room, plus i've put a drop down from the roof panels in to stop this position being so strong.

And since i ran from intel to intel without being seen by a single player, raising the floor of the canyon bit might help.

There is now one, large spawn in the centre of each base, and it has access to all the routes nearby. For attackers, there are multiple routes (+1 since the changes) to the intelligence and lots of ways to get in the base. For defenders its important they keep an eye on the new lower tunnel route.

I'm also still looking for a name for my level. Its theme now includes tunneling machines that have tunnelled into the bases and smashed through walls. I thought CTF-Undercut may be good because of this.

Thanks, ill post some screens of the changes tomorrow if people are interested.

 

[LeSwordfish]

ctf_undermine.

for the props with no collision models: open the console. you'll find a huge list of props. These props dont have collisions (so you can walk through them and shoot through them as if they werent there.) You can go through and manually set their collision modes to "never collide", or you can ignore it: apart from spamming the console, it isnt greatly important. Since you're detailing as you go along, i'd leave it until you finish to do this, so you only have to do it once.

 

[Jonny]

Thanks for the consistent help leSwordFish. Undermine is a good name.

Thanks I didnt realise that, i spose i can change those meshes after testing if it just spams the console and doesnt affect performance.

I also remember somone called muffin saying he couldnt play the map at all. Im not sure if this was his problem or the maps, i've been optimising with hint/skip, areaportals etc but am still learning optimisation.

How did this map run for everyone else relative to your pc power?

 

[Jonny]

Updated OP with new screens, changes and BETA 2 of what is now Ctf-Undermine.

 

[LeSwordfish]

I've left plenty of in-map feedback.

There are now perhaps too many alternate routes- i kept running into enemies deep within my own base. It could do with some more signs, and some corridors could be wider/more interesting.

 

[Jonny]

Alright thanks, I did get some good aesthetic points.

I could make the tunnel wider and slightly longer, and having people in your base may have been the result of it not being played much or players having a map of it in their heads. Ill add some more signs to help.

I was wondering, is there a way to see the feedback comments in my level or do i have to find the coordinates in source manually?

Ill sumbit it with changes to the next gameday if poss

 

[LeSwordfish]

Go to the "event" page on the feedback site, and download the VMF file, then copy and paste the points from that file into your map file. (Tip: Use "Paste Special" to keep pasted objects at the same coordinates)

 

[Jonny]

Thanks again, SourceTV is great!

Had a really good play on the map and im feeling positive about it, even though it was only 11 mins and not 30. Ill make it easier to defend and put the cap limit higher for a longer game

Here are my proposed changes based on what i saw happening. The main problem was enemies flooding in easily through the tunnel, which is almost too powerful now. Thus i will make it longer, adding another hole in the wall where a sentry or sniper could defend, but it wont allow players through.

Also enemies taking the intel had too many options, so now the barrel conveyer bit will be a drop down only, unless you can rocket jump of course.




Gunna get working on these changes, cant wait for the next test!

 

[honeymustard]

If you couldn't tell by my comment in that screenshot, I was referring to the huge calendar on the spawn wall

 

[grazr]

The map was basically a series of tight narrow corridors.

More/larger rooms, wider corridors, and faster spawn doors.

The map was incredibly confusing, 30 minutes in and i still only know my way to my own sewer and a medium health pack to use for building sentries.

 

[Jonny]

Ill take your feedback into account for the next version. Thankyou

EDIT.

General consensus on problems from player and my own viewing of gameplay:

1. Too many corridoors and tight spaces. Need to be widened and generally more space in passages.
2. Confusing layout. All I can do here is simplify a little and declutter, as well as making each route more memorable.
3. Bad fps in places. I'm working on optimising...this stage will be done more thoroughly when i'm happy with the rest.
4. Enemies getting into the base too easily through the tunnel. To solve this i'm lengthening this route (and widening at the start)

Positive aspects/things you liked and enjoyed while playing? Please let me know to stop me cutting it from the level.

 

[grazr]

The map would be less confusing if you had more consistent details/materials. Any room in your map could have any number of textures applied to it but you really wanna stick with only a couple to solidify your theme, but it also allows players to map your layout in their head more easily by utilising points of reference. When a room has so many unique features that becomes difficult.

 

[Jonny]

Beta 3 Update, now ready for download.

Applied your feedback grazr. Hopefully with some more testing people will get to know the layout naturally.

Note the changelog

Enjoy

 

[grazr]

The length of the U turn in the tunnels is a bit on the long side. I liked the drop down, though.

Some parts of your map were still fairly small, also the main entrance is not very obvious when you're outside.

I think you need more health in the bases too. Currently there is 1 small in the tunnel and 1 medium just past the intel room?

 

[Jonny]

Thanks for your input.

I thought the tunnel needed a good lengthening because 90% of players in the last beta took that route over any others, so flurries of enemies were suddenly in the intel rooms behind enemy lines, and that's no good! Therefore, I had to make the route cost more. Lengthening it achieved this, you now face a longer trek to get so far into the base. To offset this, a previously starved of health route now has a small health and ammo to help attackers and possibly defenders. The planked hole helps defenders keep an eye on things and possibly wrangler/snipe or stop a fast scout getting out.

The small health just inside the main entrance was removed as I felt it punished attackers - afew times I could retreat to it and defeat an enemy chasing me back into my base where I probably should have died.

Just nearby however there is a medium health lit by the torch in the dropdown. This reward of a good health is balanced by the pressure of a small entrance where you might want to come back to the main room. If you cant, you have to drop down and take the longer route or go back outside.

There's also a small health in that area above the spawn as a reward for soldiers rocket jumping up there, or escaping vent users get a little extra boost. Snipers have a small health too as they are so far from a resupply.

I have widened important areas to give more space, but I take on your suggestion and i'm considering adding another room under the battlements, with stairs up, but i'm not sure. Ill see how it plays on the next gameday.

/thesis

 

[Jonny]

Hmm, I was just looking for the sourceTV of grazr's map and I found out my level was played on a gameday only 3 days ago, I swear it was removed for the sake of other maps but never mind.

Unfortunately the last gameday had overall very negative feedback and people just write the map off as soon as they see it. I dont know if its ctf in general or comparisons to 2fort as thats the one of few main ctf maps, but it looks like nobody likes playing this map. :/

So in the interests of not wasting everyones time, I'll either stop working on it or try one more time on changing it up a little and release it. I'm also trying to find other places to get this tested so its not the same group of people playing over and over.

Pretty discouraging when you put effort into something and its just dismissed, but I guess its a lesson.

Thanks for the feedback anyway. ( I guess I didn't figure out how to fix that stalemate?)

Oh and to "yyler", no need to be so crass in giving !fb, if its not constructive and your just complaining, keep it to yourself.

 

[tyler]

I don't know what was crass about anything. Sorry. Except maybe "this sucks" but there wasn't much else to say. Moving towards a health pack only to randomly fall into a hole sucks. Otherwise everything still seems legitimate and I wouldn't change a word of it.

 

[Jonny]

Does anyone have any positive feedback please? Im struggling with what to change and thinking anything I modify will just be hated. Did anyone enjoy ANYTHING about this level??

 

[tyler]

It's hard for me to say because I really dislike ctf in tf2.

I like your mining concept. I like the drills, the broken walls. I like the middle area, but it is a bit messy. I don't like the paths around the middle, the big u turn, or the inside buildings.

My advice would be to take certain principles about this map and create a new one.

 

[Wilson]

You really need make more routes into base, there is only two of them, the main doors and tunnel, both pass right by the spawn, that is really awful desing for ctf map, take a look at ctf_wildfire for example. Also, you need make the two hallways leading into intel room itself wider, they are really tight and defenders have easy time defending intel due that.

Other really annoying thing on the map was steam at the end of tunnel, while it looks good it makes hard to see is person behind it on red or blue team, get rid of it.