KotH Trotim1

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waxpax

L5: Dapper Member
Feb 25, 2011
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Mumble recordings: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/21561105/New Map PUGS/trotim mumble recording.7z

I recorded the red comms and discussion in compressed ogg format, I needed VLC to play it; Stalin recorded the blu comms in uncompressed wav so blu comms are like 10 times the size of red but red is actually the longer recording because I think Stalin forgot to start the recording about a min late and I started mine several min early.

On red comms, you should be able to hear me say "start" or something to indicate when the match went live so you can sync it more easily. Hopefully it works the way it should as this is actually the first time I've recorded a mumble. You'll have to let me know if you can tell a major difference between the compressed and uncompressed codecs as well, because if there isn't a big difference, we'll probably be using the compressed codec in the future.

Oh, there are two discussion files because discussion was brief at first, I stopped recording when people started talking about doing Quake Live pugs and then we got some more discussion when Stalin came back into mumble.
 
Trotim

Trotim

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Jul 14, 2009
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Alright, listened to the red recording while watching the demo again now and then also listened to the discussion. I didn't really feel like listening to the blu recording especially since it seemed like they talked a lot less overall and I couldn't quite figure out when the recording started/ended, so whatever.

These were still really helpful and I'll try and get most of these into a11, but maybe next time (since you're in the game anyway) when there's feedback about a specific place you could perhaps take a few screenshots? I do know what locations were mentioned, mostly, but at the end of the discussion there's some Demo trying to shoot stickies onto the point from some other place and I have no idea where he could've been. Probably not a big issue anyway, but still!

Thanks a lot for playing it tho, really helpful since most of the feedback I got so far was from pubs or mostly unorganized 6v6ing.

EDIT: The red recording was just fine quality-wise so yeah, just compress them next time
 
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waxpax

L5: Dapper Member
Feb 25, 2011
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151
Yeah, I probably should've taken some screens for the discussion, esp since we didn't record that part with the STV. I'll try to remember the next time we do some pugs.

I believe the demo was in about the middle of the yard that has the rocks in it and that he was throwing the pipes over that bridge/hallway that connects the two houses. I thought he was tossing nades, but he might have been throwing both. They det'd on the corner of the point to sometimes almost on the middle of the point I think.

The point was that you could spam over that bridge and hit the point without really being in that much danger, sort of like spamming pipes over the house to mid from diagonal on badlands. You can probably find it pretty easily if you just spam over the bridge and no clip quickly to see where they det, that's what I'll do a lot when I want to find the blind spam lines and don't have a teammate to help me out, works all right.

Actually, I've got some time, I'll try to jump in the map and find the spot for you.
 
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waxpax

L5: Dapper Member
Feb 25, 2011
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http://min.us/ljsXnk That should be about as left as you can go from blu's side and hit the point

http://min.us/ll9Xc0 That's about as right as you can go from blu's side and hit the point

I tried to get some nades exploding and some nades arcing in the ss, but I don't think it really worked. You should be able to check it out pretty easily for yourself, though.

http://min.us/ljogIY That's a shot of what should be the train, but for some reason, the train didn't load for me while I was just on the map. I don't know if it's server side or client side as I don't think I have anyone on this early that can confirm it for me. Just something I've never really seen before and thought you might like to know about.

And, looking at it now, I don't think the spam over the bridge is a big issue, the demo has to be pretty exposed to pull it off and they seem to det on the front of the point so they shouldn't be that hard to avoid; they do det almost as soon as they hit though, so that would make them a little more effective/difficult to avoid. I think they were pointing it out as being possible and because nades that explode right on the point or at like head level can be really dangerous, so people try to find those spots when they can.
 
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Trotim

Trotim

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Okay thanks, but...

The custom models not loading is weird, I don't see what would cause this as it evidently worked just fine when you played it :I
 
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waxpax

L5: Dapper Member
Feb 25, 2011
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Well, I just hopped back in the server, and this time the train is there for me; so, maybe it was just something weird on my end since I haven't restarted the server or changed the map since I was looking at the map earlier, just restarted TF2.
 
grazr

grazr

Old Man Mutant Ninja Turtle
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Mar 4, 2008
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in response to some comments made during this and previous tests: including "the train, CP and theme have almost no relation", and the map being easy to spawn camp on.

Consider turning the CP structure into a depot design warehouse.

koth_trotim1_a100002.jpg


Secondly. One of ther major complaints is the difficulty to push out and attack once the middle has been captured and the forward buildings being occupied by the enemy team.

Consider adding a high path for attackers to allow them some territorial control of their side of the map.

koth_trotim1_a100001.jpg


My only personal complaint is that the inside areas are really cramped. I only ever use them as spy in order to flank an enemy or escape. The rest of the time it's almost always favourable to go soldier becauseof the additional maneuverability provided by rocket jumping. Any other circumstance IE playing other classes, i end up trapped or cornered within them.
 
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Zhan

Zhan

L5: Dapper Member
Dec 18, 2010
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Had lots of fun playing this map on the Cafe tonight, and once you make those changes grazr is suggesting you might have the layout done. Sandvich was complaining that it doesn't play well as soldier, but I'm not exactly sure why.
 
grazr

grazr

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The map is playing pretty solidly (at least for my personal play style), my only complaint would be that engineers don't really have any quality positions to setup, even on a lesser flank. The only half worth while tactic is to throw mini-sentry's up ontop of the train (that was annoying to deal with but little more than harassment), even then it's almost always better to play as assault.

Most of my fun is had with soldier and despite the really cramped spaces within the buildings spy can be pretty effective as well.

Snipers don't really have a lot going on for them unless your team owns the point which then gives you safer access to the middle, but again, it's almost always more beneficial to play assault because the durability of health and burst damage out weighs the benefits of a couple potential clean kills (unless you're dealing with a really top quality sniper from a comp team that's less likely to miss important shots and kill those over heals). This would be because besides the sightline right down the central hill i can't really see any other quality sightlines/seen other positions taken advantage of. There are others, but potential victim players don't really spend a lot of time in these chokes and they are usually next to ledges where soldiers and scouts are exploiting that height advantage at these positions already: Such as the mini-health pack path by the point. It's just my opinion but snipers are way too exposed or trapped in a tiny room with limited visibilty; and this is talking as someone who hates snipers and found it almost too easy to hunt them and medics down as a scout.

Ultimately though these are just nit picks, engineers usually have these problems on KoTH. I just thought i'd mention these observations.
 
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Moose

Moose

L6: Sharp Member
Nov 4, 2009
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I didn't play on the more recent 6v6, but I enjoy pretty much everything about the map so far. My one complaint is that the bridge between the 2 high rooms leading into the point feels retarded.
 
Trotim

Trotim

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Jul 14, 2009
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Moose said:
I didn't play on the more recent 6v6, but I enjoy pretty much everything about the map so far. My one complaint is that the bridge between the 2 high rooms leading into the point feels retarded.
Click to expand...

The one over the train?

LeSwordfish said:
It's kinda narrow, i think. and dark, too.
Click to expand...

Or the one connecting roof entrance and dropdown?



Anyway, just updated to a11. Sloped roof didn't work out quite as well as hoped, the other changes are mostly concerning Snipers
 
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grazr

grazr

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I like to leave a comment every time i play a developing map but we've played your map a lot and not much has visibly changed besides the little wooden platforms outside the windows at mid (which i approve of). So i don't really have much to say beyond what i havn't already said.

I'd like to see more detail now!
 
Trotim

Trotim

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Jul 14, 2009
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grazr said:
I like to leave a comment every time i play a developing map but we've played your map a lot and not much has visibly changed besides the little wooden platforms outside the windows at mid (which i approve of). So i don't really have much to say beyond what i havn't already said.

I'd like to see more detail now!
Click to expand...

Yeah it was on hiatus for about a month so I figured I'd just run a test of the most recent version again to remind myself of exactly how it played.

I might add a new exit from spawn but that's about it, frankly I've lost some interest in TF2 so I'll probably just force myself to finish this so I have something for my game dev portfolio (because it's not like employers check how a map in a random game plays, they only see the screenshots)
 
Trotim

Trotim

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Jul 14, 2009
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Started working on this again. As I said I'll probably just detail+optimize and get it finished as soon/far as possible.

koth_trotim1_a130000.jpg

koth_trotim1_a130001.jpg


yes they're dev pics without built cube maps or high settings, deal with it
 
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