The TF2 classless update: Day 2

BlueDarkness

L1: Registered
Jun 11, 2009
26
2
The biggest issue with watchtower is the lack of lack of windows and openings from above.

And I guess now that I read the description of Viaduct I now know there IS a hill, but it's not visible on the screen shots.
 

Jack Riguel

L10: Glamorous Member
Jul 19, 2009
721
254
The biggest potential issue I see with KOTH is engineers setting up on the point, and the ability of the other team to remove them.

Nucleus will naturally allow engineers to be countered (not a lot of room on the point, and easily sniped)

Sawmill has cover, and the point is somewhat open, but it may end up an issue


Other maps I'm not sure would work as well, which might be why they didn't port them over. Badlands is a possibility though...

Watchtower would be bad. Set up on the point, and it's game over...no angles to get at the sentry

I've played a few KotH maps and engies turtleing hasn't been that big of a deal. Granted, back when I played them I used to be a pretty good spy... but besides the point the respawn times make it the same as any engie turtleing a point. An ubered demoman/soldier/pyro, or a spy can easily take down the sentry. I agree, watchtower would be a bit more prone to turtleing, but like nucleus, watchtower is a "heavy" sniper map and even if the engies try to hold the point they're going to need to leave to build more items since they're no extra metal on the point.
 

Ninjilla

L420: High Member
Sep 13, 2008
445
116
That's why I dont think Nucelus will be a good KOTH map, it just cant be defended well enough for a team to win because the other team will sniper everything on point. Sawmill will be a delicious KOTH if they maybe decrease the size a bit. Badlands KOTH would kick ass.
 

Icarus

aa
Sep 10, 2008
2,245
1,210
Personally, I think it's more fun when the CP is volitile.

It's not that hard to set up a sentry, especially with all the weapon drops. Close games are always way more fun than one team dominating the other.
 

BlueDarkness

L1: Registered
Jun 11, 2009
26
2
Watchtower is more of an issue simply because the point is too claustraphobic. There is no way to attack through the windows without first breaking them, and if you fall it takes so long to climb back up that you end up either falling again or they've already gotten a defense going... I think.

But I've never really played the map with more than about 4 people on each team so I could be mistaken.
 

evanonline

L420: High Member
Mar 15, 2009
485
273
I want a KotH_Well. It's the only map with a really well made and deadly trap. It's still my favourite arena map because of this (hell the map was one of my major inspirations for arena_cargo). So yes, we do need four wells. Either that, or Valve needs to make a new KotH map with a train as a deathtrap.

I've always said Watchtower would make a better KotH map then arena. In fact most arena rounds play the map like a KotH map instead of like an arena map. The design was really poorly done on arena_Watchtower, as it's control point was the main focus of the map and it's way to easily fortified since it's the best covered spot in the map. However a koth style watchtower map would probably turn one of the worst official community maps released into one of the best KotH maps around.

I've actually always felt this aspect of Watchtower was a strong point, not necessarily poor design. It's far different from how most Arena maps play, but I've always felt it had a good flow to it and I like its focus on vertical gameplay. I do obviously have to agree that it'd be great for KOTH though. I hope the guy who made Watchtower won't mind putting it out as a KOTH map.

I don't mean to say that KOTH_Well would be bad either--I'd find it pretty fun. I'm just doubting that it'll happen due to the fact that we have three Wells already.

I hope Valve doesn't feel like they have to innovate with every update either--I'd love to see some new Valve-made A/D CP maps.
 

Pyrit

L1: Registered
Aug 6, 2009
13
7
Hey, you know how ubercharged.net was linked on the tf2 blog the other day?

Here's the traffic report from madlep:

ucstats.png

(Sorry for the size)

Can you guess which day the site was linked? :O
 

Jack Riguel

L10: Glamorous Member
Jul 19, 2009
721
254
Personally, I think it's more fun when the CP is volitile.

It's not that hard to set up a sentry, especially with all the weapon drops. Close games are always way more fun than one team dominating the other.

'Seconded. I honestly can't wait for koth_ nucleus. One of the most annoying things about that map is how sniper friendly it is. (I play with a lot of good snipers, so I can rarely leave spawn unless I'm a spy or scout) However with the King of the Hill style play this map should be a lot more fun. The "hill" will most likely change hands quite a bit, which is the enjoyable part of koth.

I've actually always felt this aspect of Watchtower was a strong point, not necessarily poor design. It's far different from how most Arena maps play, but I've always felt it had a good flow to it and I like its focus on vertical gameplay. I do obviously have to agree that it'd be great for KOTH though. I hope the guy who made Watchtower won't mind putting it out as a KOTH map..

I hope Valve doesn't feel like they have to innovate with every update either--I'd love to see some new Valve-made A/D CP maps.

Vertical gameplay does not work well with tf2. Granted, it's not a bad thing to have vertical gameplay, but when a map is solely based around that idea it limits the amount of classes that can play it. Unless I set on the point all day long, I feel completely useless as a heavy or engie on that map. Even spies have a tough time because unless your on the pipes or in the watchtower itself, the map is too open. Arena mode is meant for any class to battle with each other, and not to focus on the capture point, which is why the layout of the map is very very important.

However, KotH style is very different. Instead, the gameplay is focused on holding the control area rather then directly fighting one another. The problem with watchtower is that when it's played in arena mode the map focuses on the control point rather then person to person combat.
 

Rikka

L5: Dapper Member
Feb 10, 2009
208
388
I'm totally willing to not care about any of those issues and just want them all be made KOTH. But I'm selfish that way.

Someone go bug every person who's made an arena map to adapt them into KOTH.
 

Jack Riguel

L10: Glamorous Member
Jul 19, 2009
721
254
I'm totally willing to not care about any of those issues and just want them all be made KOTH. But I'm selfish that way.

Someone go bug every person who's made an arena map to adapt them into KOTH.

Agreed.

KotH_Cargo in process. Should be interesting with a never-ending train...