The First Entirely Community-Created Update is LIVE!

[Fruity Snacks]

whats wrong with pipeline

nothing. absolutely nothing.

|----------|----------|----------|----------|----------|----------|----------|----------|----------|
And to the couple people saying "hey, lets make our map own update with blackjack and hookers"

1) It's hard to make a community update. Period.
2) It's easier to make a community model update than mapper update.
3) I know from experience what it's like to organize a bunch of mappers. It's stressful as hell. To do it right, you MUST plan MONTHS in advance, and hope to hell that your mappers are able to finish. (Doing the first H'ween pack, which was originally going to be a TF2M release, was far more work than a lot of people actually think. Getting mappers together, quality checking, etc.)

If you want a GREAT Themed Map update and started to plan it now, it probably wouldn't be ready for at least 6 month minimum, and thats assuming everyone was working everyday at the most efficient they can. Ideally, you're look at a 10 months.

If you want a community map update, do it, but understand that it is not as easy as saying "lets make a great themed content update."

 

[nightwatch]

means we mappers won and our truly artists while all the modellers sold out and arent artists anymore

cause for Celebration!

You spell and utilize grammar like a true artist, prestige.

 

[Freyja]

to be fair none of the mvm contest maps were playable so it's not a shocker that they didn't buy one.

You're right there. Ventus is the worst thing I've ever done.

 

[Ælement]

And sludge is a bloody mess right now...

 

[Penguin]

christ that sounded a lot more offensive in retrospect

that's not what i meant; rather, issues that you guys could not have foreseen (such as bots not following the desired designated routes) were prevalent and I think that simply stems from an inability to conduct tests, which really isn't even remotely the fault of the mappers

 

[Ælement]

It's true either way

 

[EArkham]

It WAS offensive... to the point that I looked at the isolation thread to see if you posted feedback, saw that you didn't, and got partly into a snotty response before deciding that would be stupid of me. Let's forget it and move on.

The versions in the contest were pretty broken, but this was due to the lack of testing I'm sure. A couple of us brought that up during the contest. Another month of testing probably would have seen a dramatic increase in the quality of the mechanics for the entries.

Still, confirming that Valve looked at the contest maps is a surprise to me. Considering that I and others have been updating and testing our maps after the contest -- in isolation's case, fixing the pathing of the bots was the biggest priority and B4 is actually getting played more than any of my other custom maps -- it's a little annoying to think they either didn't look at post-contest versions or that post-contest fixes STILL weren't enough to warrant interest.

Actually... this imo is one of the largest problems right now for mappers: Valve hasn't really let us know what things kill a map for consideration. We're all pretty much operating blind, whereas for models they're interested in, they're fairly quick to say exactly what's wrong and ask for a revision.

 

[Harribo]

Actually... this imo is one of the largest problems right now for mappers: Valve hasn't really let us know what things kill a map for consideration. We're all pretty much operating blind, whereas for models they're interested in, they're fairly quick to say exactly what's wrong and ask for a revision.

Thinking that Valve talk to the modelers much more than the mappers is rather a joke. 99% of all the posts Valve have posted on workshop items is about getting the item sorted into the right folder structure, then nothing.

Populus had been waiting for like at least a year for Valve to talk more to him about his dumpster diver set (since f2p update IIRC) they said stuff need changing, he updated the items then nothing for months and it goes on but i cant recall the details right now.

Communication is just as much of a joke for both sides for the TF2 content creating community.

 

[Moose]

if you honestly can't figure out on your own what valve are looking for in a good map no wonder they won't accept it

 

[Pocket]

Clearly our maps need more hats.

 

[EArkham]

Communication is just as much of a joke for both sides for the TF2 content creating community.

Probably, but I only have the Boogaloo experience to compare, where it felt like there was much more communication. I only had two brief responses to any of my maps; otherwise silence.

if you honestly can't figure out on your own what valve are looking for in a good map no wonder they won't accept it

Not at all what I said.

 

[Trotim]

to be fair none of the mvm contest maps were playable so it's not a shocker that they didn't buy one.

Don't feel bad for saying the truth. Though I don't care who's to blame, fact is the whole contest was a mess

The whole "oh it's so easy to make an MvM map - one month is totally enough to make one from scratch! - let's not extend the deadline" misconception did not help one bit. Then half the mappers had no idea how the .pop files work so they just made someone else who didn't know the layout at all put random bots on it. And then it all got so little testing I still haven't been able to play through half of the maps. And then the results page listed like one MvM server so 6 of 1000 people were able to play

 

[stegarootbeer]

Testing seems to be a really hard part of MvM. First it takes like an hour to get a whole team of 6 people, then when you finally do get in if the bots are too hard then everyone gets discouraged and no one wants to play anymore. Plus it can take over an hour just to get through the map once, which to be fair probably isn't enough testing for one version of the map. So overall we really would need a much larger community to properly get MvM maps tested and we are getting smaller by the day.

 

[Prestige]

i think if we put "1st prize officialization," the quality of maps in the contest would have improved drastically. or something like "official valve employee test and feedback session"

 

[Leminnes]

if you honestly can't figure out on your own what valve are looking for in a good map no wonder they won't accept it

I'm not sure how to articulate this.

I know what a good map is to me. I know what I think Valve is looking for, but I really can't know for sure. All I really have to go by is their own maps and the ones they have officiated already (which, honestly, don't all impress me.)

I'd like to think I know what they want, and I'd like to think that I'm creating something they would enjoy and be impressed by. But unless I hear it from the horses mouth, I'll never know for sure.

I think that is what everyone's trying to say.

 

[PMAvers]

Someone should totally make a pl_hatfactory map. Single-stage PL.

Attackers are mercs hired by MannCo to track down the robot's hat factory and destroy it, so people go back to buying their hats.

Defenders are mercs hired by the robots to defend the facility (using the money from hat sales, also possibly paid in hats).

The bomb can even have a hat. That'll totally get Valve's attention.

 

[Pocket]

Something like Hat Factory makes more sense as a MvM map. So far none of the Mann Co bases have been anything of much consequence. I'm almost surprised they didn't do one of those in the first place, but after seeing their method of optimizing MvM for performance and how many polys most hats have, I think I understand why.

 

[PoignardAzur]

Yeah, most pvp maps don't include any real infrastructures to protect, only some void building, crates and in a few case (like goldrush) resources. It's also the case in mvm to a point, but you're less given the impression that you fight in a spy base looking like a factory, and more in (front of) a factory reconverted into some improvised headquarters for the mercs. Of course, this is totally justified in both cases.

So a pl_hatfactory would most likely be about a false plant, a decoy built to lure Mann&Co or whatever. Or a warehouse filled with hats, alternatively.

The big question is "what colour do you give them" ? I mean, the defenders are RED, but you can't make red guys working for GRAY. Moreover, the colour of the buildings will be a bit confusing : how do you make people understand that aren't in a neutral terrain but in the RED/GRAY one ? Food for thought.