Stucking Projectiles Glitch

[Light08]

Greetings!

So, I've been working on a map of mine, updating it to a halloween-ish version and releasing the new version.
Everything was all right so far until we actually released the map on the server, where a strange bug starts to happen, in which projectiles get stuck on walls and floors. They kind of bounce off from surfaces. This seems to happen to every projectile, even hooks, resulting in this strange glitch which can be abused to spawn a lot of projectiles that can and will crash the server after some time.

I've been doing a lot of experimenting but I simply can't figure out what's causing it. From what I noticed is that it only happens on dedicated server, otherwise it works smoothly on local servers. This might indicate a network-issue, perhaps? I checked the console, even server console. There are no errors or issues appearing when this glitch happens. Nothing that gives a hint on what it could be. The bug itself isn't right from the start of the map, but rather, it starts after a while. I don't know what is triggering it.
So I hoped to ask around here if someone has experienced something similar or even knows how to actually fix it.

The previous version doesn't have this issue.

Compilelog posted a few posts below. The only issues that showed up during compiling besides the regular skybox error, were these two (according to Interlopers) harmless errors:

Warning: node without a volume
zero area child patch

If someone could help me out, that would be very appreciated.

Thanks for reading.

- Light08

 

[RodionJenga]

How many entities do you have? The same thing happened on safteyhazard with a few people on the server.

 

[EmNudge]

This happened to me in the past after spawning 200 dispensers via a plugin. I believe @RodionJenga may be right and this is in fact an entity problem.

 

[Light08]

A friend suggested it being entities too. Would make sense since my map uses a shitton of entities.

However.

For comparison between each version:
_b1b:
PointEntities: 3065
SolidEntities: 941

_b2:
PointEntities: 3031
SolidEntities: 919

Mind you, _b1b is stable and doesn't have any issues or crashes. While _b2 doesn't crash either, it has this weird projectile glitch.

Are you guys really sure it has to be the entities? Because I mainly removed more entities in b2 than added.

Compilelog:

Spoiler

================== VBSP ==================



materialPath: D:\Steam\SteamApps\common\Team Fortress 2\tf\materials
Loading D:\Steam\SteamApps\common\Team Fortress 2\sourcesdk_content\tf\mapsrc\tm_stadium_b2.vmf
"tools/locked" - "materials/tools/locked.vtf": cached version doesn't exist
ConVarRef mat_reduceparticles doesn't point to an existing ConVar
Patching WVT material: maps/tm_stadium_b2/maritime/nature/maritime_grass002_wvt_patch
Patching WVT material: maps/tm_stadium_b2/light08/tm_stadium/grass_wvt_patch
fixing up env_cubemap materials on brush sides...
0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9...100...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9...10Processing areas...done (0)
Building Faces...done (0)
Chop Details...done (1)
Find Visible Detail Sides...
Merged 7828 detail faces...done (1)
Merging details...done (0)
FixTjuncs...
PruneNodes...
WriteBSP...
done (2)
writing D:\Steam\SteamApps\common\Team Fortress 2\sourcesdk_content\tf\mapsrc\tm_stadium_b2.prt...Building visibility clusters...
done (0)
WARNING: node without a volume
WARNING: node without a volume
WARNING: node without a volume
*** Error: Skybox vtf files for skybox/sky_halloween weren't compiled with the same size texture and/or same flags!
Can't load skybox file skybox/sky_halloween to build the default cubemap!
*** Error: Skybox vtf files for skybox/sky_halloween weren't compiled with the same size texture and/or same flags!
Can't load skybox file skybox/sky_halloween to build the default cubemap!
Finding displacement neighbors...
Finding lightmap sample positions...
Displacement Alpha : 0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9...10
Building Physics collision data...
done (4) (2968694 bytes)
Placing detail props : 0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9...10
Compacting texture/material tables...
Reduced 19267 texinfos to 10556
Reduced 699 texdatas to 600 (27573 bytes to 23775)
Writing D:\Steam\SteamApps\common\Team Fortress 2\sourcesdk_content\tf\mapsrc\tm_stadium_b2.bsp
Wrote ZIP buffer, estimated size 149705, actual size 109157
17 seconds elapsed

================== VVIS ==================




4 threads
reading d:\steam\steamapps\common\team fortress 2\sourcesdk_content\tf\mapsrc\tm_stadium_b2.bsp
reading d:\steam\steamapps\common\team fortress 2\sourcesdk_content\tf\mapsrc\tm_stadium_b2.prt
2584 portalclusters
6183 numportals
0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9...100...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9...10Optimized: 5652 visible clusters (0.42%)
Total clusters visible: 1337639
Average clusters visible: 517
Building PAS...
Average clusters audible: 1069
visdatasize:774127 compressed from 1695104
writing d:\steam\steamapps\common\team fortress 2\sourcesdk_content\tf\mapsrc\tm_stadium_b2.bsp
5 minutes, 38 seconds elapsed

================== VRAD ==================




[Reading texlights from 'lights.rad']
[56 texlights parsed from 'lights.rad']

[Reading texlights from 'D:\Steam\SteamApps\common\Team Fortress 2\tf\light.rad']
[3 texlights parsed from 'D:\Steam\SteamApps\common\Team Fortress 2\tf\light.rad']

Loading d:\steam\steamapps\common\team fortress 2\sourcesdk_content\tf\mapsrc\tm_stadium_b2.bsp
Loaded alpha texture materials\Models\props_gameplay\security_fence_alpha.vtf
Loaded alpha texture materials\models\props_foliage\pine_tree_large.vtf
Loaded alpha texture materials\models\props_foliage\shrub_03.vtf
Loaded alpha texture materials\models\props_foliage\shrub_03_snow.vtf
Loaded alpha texture materials\models\props_foliage\shrub_01a.vtf
25838 faces
9 degenerate faces
36695700 square feet [5284180480.00 square inches]
87 Displacements
51399 Square Feet [7401567.50 Square Inches]
25829 patches before subdivision
zero area child patch
523721 patches after subdivision
1084 direct lights
0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9...100...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9...10transfers 130692988, max 3363
transfer lists: 997.1 megs
0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9...10 Bounce #1 added RGB(767815, 954446, 934998)
0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9...10 Bounce #2 added RGB(283980, 356370, 292213)
0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9...10 Bounce #3 added RGB(102276, 124809, 89299)
0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9...10 Bounce #4 added RGB(47899, 57482, 35832)
0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9...10 Bounce #5 added RGB(20808, 24040, 13133)
0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9...10 Bounce #6 added RGB(10154, 11316, 5405)
0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9...10 Bounce #7 added RGB(4736, 5055, 2111)
0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9...10 Bounce #8 added RGB(2331, 2384, 871)
0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9...10 Bounce #9 added RGB(1124, 1098, 350)
0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9...10 Bounce #10 added RGB(556, 519, 145)
0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9...10 Bounce #11 added RGB(273, 243, 59)
0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9...10 Bounce #12 added RGB(136, 115, 25)
0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9...10 Bounce #13 added RGB(67, 55, 10)
0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9...10 Bounce #14 added RGB(34, 26, 4)
0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9...10 Bounce #15 added RGB(17, 12, 2)
0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9...10 Bounce #16 added RGB(8, 6, 1)
0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9...10 Bounce #17 added RGB(4, 3, 0)
0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9...10 Bounce #18 added RGB(2, 1, 0)
0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9...10 Bounce #19 added RGB(1, 1, 0)
0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9...10 Bounce #20 added RGB(1, 0, 0)
Build Patch/Sample Hash Table(s).....Done<0.3767 sec>
0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9...10FinalLightFace Done
Computing detail prop lighting : 0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9...10
0 of 428 (0% of) surface lights went in leaf ambient cubes.
0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9...10Writing leaf ambient...done
Computing static prop lighting : 00...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9...10
Ready to Finish

Object names Objects/Maxobjs Memory / Maxmem Fullness
------------ --------------- --------------- --------
models 448/1024 21504/49152 (43.8%)
brushes 7665/8192 91980/98304 (93.6%) VERY FULL!
brushsides 64749/65536 517992/524288 (98.8%) VERY FULL!
planes 43246/65536 864920/1310720 (66.0%)
vertexes 46030/65536 552360/786432 (70.2%)
nodes 12377/65536 396064/2097152 (18.9%)
texinfos 10556/12288 760032/884736 (85.9%) VERY FULL!
texdata 600/2048 19200/65536 (29.3%)
dispinfos 87/0 15312/0 ( 0.0%)
disp_verts 2175/0 43500/0 ( 0.0%)
disp_tris 2784/0 5568/0 ( 0.0%)
disp_lmsamples 91740/0 91740/0 ( 0.0%)
faces 25838/65536 1446928/3670016 (39.4%)
hdr faces 0/65536 0/3670016 ( 0.0%)
origfaces 18782/65536 1051792/3670016 (28.7%)
leaves 12826/65536 410432/2097152 (19.6%)
leaffaces 30797/65536 61594/131072 (47.0%)
leafbrushes 18394/65536 36788/131072 (28.1%)
areas 17/256 136/2048 ( 6.6%)
surfedges 198665/512000 794660/2048000 (38.8%)
edges 125937/256000 503748/1024000 (49.2%)
LDR worldlights 1084/8192 95392/720896 (13.2%)
HDR worldlights 0/8192 0/720896 ( 0.0%)
leafwaterdata 9/32768 108/393216 ( 0.0%)
waterstrips 2020/32768 20200/327680 ( 6.2%)
waterverts 0/65536 0/786432 ( 0.0%)
waterindices 38430/65536 76860/131072 (58.6%)
cubemapsamples 28/1024 448/16384 ( 2.7%)
overlays 505/512 177760/180224 (98.6%) VERY FULL!
LDR lightdata [variable] 16185100/0 ( 0.0%)
HDR lightdata [variable] 0/0 ( 0.0%)
visdata [variable] 774127/16777216 ( 4.6%)
entdata [variable] 515106/393216 (131.0%) VERY FULL!
LDR ambient table 12826/65536 51304/262144 (19.6%)
HDR ambient table 12826/65536 51304/262144 (19.6%)
LDR leaf ambient 39214/65536 1097992/1835008 (59.8%)
HDR leaf ambient 12826/65536 359128/1835008 (19.6%)
occluders 7/0 280/0 ( 0.0%)
occluder polygons 51/0 612/0 ( 0.0%)
occluder vert ind 230/0 920/0 ( 0.0%)
detail props [variable] 1/1101720 ( 0.0%)
dtl prp lght [variable] 1/4 (25.0%)
HDR dtl prp lght [variable] 1/4 (25.0%)
static props [variable] 1/112736 ( 0.0%)
pakfile [variable] 7049745/0 ( 0.0%)
physics [variable] 2968694/4194304 (70.8%)
physics terrain [variable] 15743/1048576 ( 1.5%)

Level flags = 1

Total triangle count: 71301
Writing d:\steam\steamapps\common\team fortress 2\sourcesdk_content\tf\mapsrc\tm_stadium_b2.bsp
21 minutes, 47 seconds elapsed

 

[Izotope]

IZOTOPE ARRIVES ON A TIDE OF ENTDATA!..... Oh, hello Light.

Split your map into several sections as VisGroups, then compile the map with them turned on or off individually.
At some point the map's ought to work as intended, and then you can inspect the section of the map that caused this.

 

[Light08]

I'd prefer to not do this methode since it's gonna take quite the time for it. That would most likely be my very last plan.

And regarding entdata, I've told you before that my map always had a high entdata.
entdata [variable] 545974/393216 (138.8%) VERY FULL! was from b1b, which is a lot higher.

Tho, I could check if lowering it might fix it... just in case.

 

[killohurtz]

This issue is definitely related to entdata. The engine has a hard limit on the number of entities it can manage at once. You need to push your entity count down significantly - 1400 is a good soft limit to leave room for the entities spawned at runtime (players, weapons, projectiles, cosmetic items, ragdolls, templates, etc.). On a dedicated server, this adds up fast.

 

[Pocket]

How much stuff do you have in your map that you're going over 100% entdata in the first place? Because 40,000 is a lot of entities.

 

[Light08]

How much stuff do you have in your map that you're going over 100% entdata in the first place? Because 40,000 is a lot of entities.

It's a big map with a lot of areas with their own kind of mechanics. I've already made numerous optimization but I guess I'll have to do more of them after all...

There are some entities I could delete to get below 100%, I'll see if it helps.

Thanks for the help.

 

[ics]

This issue is definitely related to entdata. The engine has a hard limit on the number of entities it can manage at once. You need to push your entity count down significantly - 1400 is a good soft limit to leave room for the entities spawned at runtime (players, weapons, projectiles, cosmetic items, ragdolls, templates, etc.). On a dedicated server, this adds up fast.

I do not completely agree on this. If he has 3065 PointEntities and 941 SolidEntities, as a comparison, on Brimstone i have Pointentities 3327 and SolidEntities 1544 and the map runs perfectly fine. The entdata line in hammer is also not a solid limit. I have "457972/393216 (116.5%) VERY FULL!" in Brimstone aswell.

But these are not the same thing as the entity limit within the engine itself. Generally keeping edicts aka dynamic entities less than 1400 is a good idea. I have 1364 of those in my map without players, even though point and solid entities report what they report in hammer. Status ingame displays the edicts count while map is loaded or running on a server.

I'm not sure what causes that issue with the projectiles but i think its not the entdata itself.

EDIT

It's possible that he is going over the edict limit though, needs to check status on server and the edict count when alone in the map.

 

[killohurtz]

I do not completely agree on this. If he has 3065 PointEntities and 941 SolidEntities, as a comparison, on Brimstone i have Pointentities 3327 and SolidEntities 1544 and the map runs perfectly fine. The entdata line in hammer is also not a solid limit. I have "457972/393216 (116.5%) VERY FULL!" in Brimstone aswell.

But these are not the same thing as the entity limit within the engine itself. Generally keeping edicts aka dynamic entities less than 1400 is a good idea. I have 1364 of those in my map without players, even though point and solid entities report what they report in hammer. Status ingame displays the edicts count while map is loaded or running on a server.

I'm not sure what causes that issue with the projectiles but i think its not the entdata itself.

EDIT

It's possible that he is going over the edict limit though, needs to check status on server and the edict count when alone in the map.

I said nothing about the Hammer entity counts, or the entdata variable having a hard limit. It's the networked entity count that matters. OP did not say how many edicts he has, but the fact that this happens only on dedicated servers only confirms my suspicions. Extreme lag and crashes can happen when the server attempts to transmit too much entity information to clients.

 

[Light08]

Is there a way or some page to check which entities transmit information, so I can check which entities might cause this?

I have about ~1250 edicts with only 1 player around. This is from what I've seen about 100 edicts less than the previous version had.

 

[ics]

You can list edicts with sv_dump_edicts command, it shows you count of each entity within the map. Not directly, but show us the output. I still think your issue might not be entity related. Have you tested the map on other servers?

 

[Light08]

So it seems it only happens if at least 2 players are on the server... Or not. I'm alone on the server and it still happens? Not sure about this.

It mostly happens if I spawn bosses, mainly skeletons(?). Server doesn't matter. We tried on our main server & a test dedicated server with both, sourcemod & without sourcemod (vanilla).

Graph doesn't show anything out of the ordinary, unless I'm blind.

Spoiler

I think that ^ was before the projectiles started glitching while this v is while its glitched.

Also, another major change between these versions is that I replaced all env_soundscape_proxys with trigger_soundscape and used them almost across the entire map for all areas, to save some edicts caused by the soundscape entities. I might just be exaggerating, but something like this wouldn't cause this, right?
Neither would a corrupted / missing .nav file?

Or an error during compiling / repacking / compromissing the map?

I'm seriously running out of ideas what might have caused this.

 

[ics]

180 buttons, 104 physboxes, 98 prop_dynamics, 71 teleports? Thats loads of stuff that can cause issues with physics.

 

[Light08]

196 buttons, 101 physboxes, 100 prop_dynamics, 71 teleports on b1b, which doesnt have this issue.

 

[Crash]

How many skeletons are you spawning? Check your edicts when the projectiles are sticking. The only time I've seen this issue before was from pushing the entity limits.