So what the heck IS comp CTF?

[shdw.puppet]

engys account for like .5 percent of all play
same with heavys
and pyros
spies
snipers see a little more, especially if the map is beneficial to it.

 

[Cornish Gamehen]

Just to throw in the discussion that on pub. servers, I've been able to cap the intel on Double Cross around seven times in a match simply by running for my life as a targe demo, utilising the lower bridge to avoid opposition. Although you would expect more competence in the competitive community for sure.

 

[Tinker]

I'd even expect slightly more competence than THAT in a pub

 

[grazr]

It depends on how successful you are in joining a server where people play the game mode properly. Most of the focus in ctf is on the killing, rather than capturing; so most people forget what the goal actually is. In CP and A/D, capturing the goals increases the timer and time spent fighting on that map. Not fighting for the objective puts you in a position where your team (and namely, you) will die/be steam rolled/lose the game and change the map; which is obviously not fun. Capturing the intel has no such influence, time spent on the map is pre-dictated and capturing the intel grants little reward.

It's not necasserily that pub players are dumb, they've proven they can achieve the targets in A/D modes time and time again, ctf should be no different. So it's not that they can't play the mode properly, but why should they when the alternative is just as fun/yeilds greater rewards.

 

[General_Norris]

engys account for like .5 percent of all play
same with heavys
and pyros
spies
snipers see a little more, especially if the map is beneficial to it.

Snipers see a lot of high-level play. It's not uncommon for a TF2 clan to have a very good ex-CS player that can headshot like there's no tomorrow. Sniper requires a higher skill level entry than Scout so most clans will run Scout more often than Sniper in that slot.

Engineers are used only in AD maps because CP is not good for the current engineer and the only CTF map played has no metal where you need it. Turbine has no metal in the middle so you can't go Engie. That's all.

Heavies are rare in the US but not as rare in Europe. However I have yet to see a single team that doesn't bring one in Well.

Valve is going to add the GRU or something similar to the Heavy sooner or later, for example. Given that everyone plays him in Well because he is not 5 seconds behind everyone I'm sure it will open many doors. Yes, he won't be played in Badlands but he will be played.

Something very important, this WILL change. Valve is balancing the game day after day so the "character tiers" are not going to be the same. Make your map good for all the classes you can and then let the players choose not to play Pyro, not the other way around.

If you ignore this your map will probably get obsolote sooner or later. The metagame changes and the game is evolving.

Also competitive doesn't mean "using the same tactics". The game will be more competitive if more classes can be played a profesional level because it will require more strategy and skill.

 

[shdw.puppet]

I agree with most of what Gen says, except team generalizations. My team does not un heavy on well. at the more mid level of play I hail from, snipers are actually more rare than at the level of pandemic and coL (carnage is a beast sniper and plays it often).

Hint for my team's strat on turbine, we have found an effective way of getting an engy set up at mid so that there is plenty of ammo for everyone.

I have never even seen heavy played on well once actually....

The point of my post was not to say ignore the needs of the other 5 classes, it was to put into perspective the actual burden of importance in a comp map.

 

[Retroid]

Heavies are rare in the US

*sniggers*

...

Anyways; as with what the General was saying I should imagine you should cater your map to give the right amount of opertunities to every class - incase of future buffs/nerfs plus so it plays well for the public too.

As for my theories, I would say that you shouldn't limit the gamplay space but should think about how 6 people would hold up defending the chokepoints in your map. It shouldn't be easy or impossible to do. CTF means that you have to force the players to defend the flag carrier whilst blocking possible enemy entry points.