CP Silvertrail RC2

[MungoKing]

Looks great, some real original detailing in this map. I like the paint stroke overlays used for, well, paint strokes near the blue spawn, very clever! That's just to name one thing of course, the whole map is fantastic looking, great job! I can't wait to play it in a gameday soon. The only problems I had were very small.

These areas need to be brightened up:

C Tunnel to B building

Building near A

Some sign Suggestions:

I'd either make that control point sign more obvious or add a sign that tells the player that if they go right, it hooks back around to C, and if they go straight, it goes to A.

Just need a sign saying A here.

Just a suggestion:

I'd probably slope the ground downwards towards the end at this part to give the illusion of the end of the road disappearing, without it actually having to go on forever. Maybe add another uphill farther in the distance in the 3D Skybox?

 

[Ravidge]

Gameday. I had fun, hope you guys did too.

I am going to look at reds respawntimes and tweak a little, seemed hard for blue to cap once red has some teleporters up. This is the main issue I found today.

I'll be fixing any lighting problems with the next release. It got a lot darker for some odd compile reason. Don't worry tho, I know what to do!


How was the fps? I'm trying out another optimization method. It renders a lot more but it looks nicer. If the fps is affected too much I'm reverting back to the previous setup.
Are there any areas that looked underdetailed (or overdetailed)?
Got lost?
Found something wierd?

Any comments are appriciated

 

[Nosher]

I really enjoyed this map and dude, I am struggling to find fault!!!

Just two little offerings........

.....it would be cool to be able to get here - seems strange when you jump over to it from the cap and hit the player clip!

A sign wouldn't go amiss here - just to steer you the right way....

....like I said - struggling to offer stuff as the map looks very well made and polished. :thumbup1:

Some nice touches and the brushwork is pretty nifty :thumbup:

FPS were good, but as I have VSync on it is always 60fps....but it never dipped once

Nosh

 

[Ravidge]

Thanks Nosher.

I also watched the sourceTV demo, and checked out the things you guys mentioned ingame. A lot of good suggestions and positive comments in general.

But I really need more people commenting on the FPS, esp. demomen and soldiers, did you notice any great drops when jumping around the map (at high altitudes )

--Edit--
Z33: detonator would be a nice addition I believe. If and when you get it done, send me a PM.
Custom explosion would a dream come through I don't know how much work or how difficult it is to make one, If it's not too much of a burden, It would be really nice of you. If you need something (like the building+area) you can find me in the steamchat pretty much anyday.

 

[GrimGriz]

You changed A and I ended up not hating the changes, nicely done

 

[Ravidge]

Updated to beta 2!

Log:
Fixed dark lighting.
Red spawn is now spytech.
Increased Red Spawntime slightly.
Added minor detailing and playerclipping.

 

[Rikka]

Played b1 today on a really disorganized pub, about 7-8 players per team the whole time. Everyone seemed to have a good time, and both times C was capped quickly after. Again, it was really disorganized (there wasn't one time either team had a united defense).

It played great, and I can't wait to try out b2.

 

[Ravidge]

Gameday again. I couldn't attend for various reasons.. Luckily I requested a sourceTV demo which I have now watched.

From what I heard/read, fps seems to be the biggest issue.
It's hard to judge the balance from just 2½ rounds but atleast C was reached this time (unlike in the b1 test).

For b3 I'm going to (again) seal off the different areas from eachother. Which should increase fps a little. I wanted to experiment with the horizontal hints method, because its so much prettier. But it's obviously not working as intended when several people are having fps troubles.

The 3d skybox is also a minor problem, I just can't get an alpine/mountain environment right.. ah well, practice makes perfect.

Thanks for playing, and if you have anything to add you know where the reply button is

 

[Lazy Eskimo]

I don't like how we guard b cause it's harder to cap and just try to stall them for a minute if anything on a. So it sorta ends up being a 2 point map cause you don't really play a.

I would love it if you have to cap a before b.

They are doing a mapvote on twl with silvertrail being one of the maps http://www.teamwarfare.com/ballot/ballot.asp?ballotid=772 sign up and support custom maps!

 

[Ravidge]

I don't like how we guard b cause it's harder to cap and just try to stall them for a minute if anything on a. So it sorta ends up being a 2 point map cause you don't really play a.

I would love it if you have to cap a before b.

They are doing a mapvote on twl with silvertrail being one of the maps http://www.teamwarfare.com/ballot/ballot.asp?ballotid=772 sign up and support custom maps!

It's the same as gravel pit in that regard, A gets capped very early in the game while the fighting takes place at B and C. I have not seen/heard of a 3cp a/d map that doesn't play out like this in competative play (but I'm not a comp player so I'm just going by what I've seen demos of).

I really tried to make both points completely different and still fun for all. In a competative game I believe it's inevitable that one of either A or B gets (mostly) ignored by the defenders. This is due to the nature of comp gameplay and how to play the map efficiently. I made the path between the areas very short hoping a mobile defence could actually defend both points, but I haven't seen many attempts at this.

Locking B until A is capped is not an option. That would create a completely new map and not what Silvertrail has been tested for in the alpha releases.

I'll be sure to check out that mapvote, it sounds pretty interesting!

 

[Lazy Eskimo]

Both paths from b to a are in the pit. Perhaps a straight as possible path leading to a good defensive position on both sides?

It would be rather simple to test if locking b would work well wouldn't it? Release 2 versions? Whoever wants to play one can play that =o

When attacking b you either go into a valley or a pit. I think it's a bit too hard to get out of the valley or pit.

 

[Ravidge]

I think you have mixed up the cap point letters. A is the tall one, B is the house.

The current paths between A and B are as straight as they can be. While still maintaining the optimization.

And I have no clue what you mean by "a good defensive position", you need to be a lot more specific than that. Give me atleast a vague idea what you're thinking, because I can't read your mind A picture would be even better!

 

[Lazy Eskimo]

Yes I did mix up cps ><

Suppose your at b and you want to go back to a. The tunnel exit releases you right into the low area where blue comes out at. You would rather come out towards the high ground into a good position.

If you make both tunnel opening areas good to attack from and easy to retreat to. It would make it a better choice to attempt to defend both some.

 

[Ravidge]

Ok, I see what you mean. And I can recall thinking the same thing for myself when designing the basic structure, there were 2 options; 1. make paths long but effective. 2. short and direct.

I went with option 2, for public play this is the most satisfying alternative (more action less walking). It would be impossible for me to make accesible tunnel exits at high ground with the current layout. and It's going to take more than just moving a few rocks around to change that.

I did however make it much easier for red to access control point A. The stairs are placed directly infront of the exit and a rj/sj can also instantly take you up there.

Your ideas and suggestions are great, I just can't fit them into the map :/
I'll think about it some more, but don't expect much.

 

[uma plata]

Played B1 quite a bit today. Very balanced, and very fun. We had some great last minute caps and defenses

Some feedback, not much. Sorry if any of these have been mentioned already:

This grate here facing C can be abused by snipers who open it to pop off a shot they've lined up, and close it right after. I always thought you should be able to spam snipers once you know where they are, but that could be just me. I'd suggest removing the gate entirely

Could use bigger signs pointing you to A in both these places. You can never give a player too much info

Overall I had a hell of a good time on it, nice work

 

[Lazy Eskimo]

Locking b would just make a better map. Wouldn't completely change it. Wouldn't need testing. Just need to add some more time cause of red being able to defend all 3 capture points.

Gravel pit has problems in public. Often times d will choose to defend one side. If they pick to split d often times all blue will go 1 side and roll them. Gravel pit style only degrades tf2 and doesn't provide anything.

 

[Ravidge]

locking B would make this into a linear 3 point a/d map. And yes, it would require tons of testing as it would mean all my 7 alpha release data become null.

I think you're wrong in saying that gravel-pit style degrades tf2. It's the only cp point variant where you have a choice where to strike first. If anything It's the only style that provides something a little extra.

In Gravelpit the red team spawns so much closer to B than A, so almost always will there be tougher defence at B. In Silvertrail both points are equally far away and they are very different from eachother. Engineers for example would prefer B for the sentry spots, while a soldier would choose A because of the height variation. I have found that it actually works really well in public, it only takes 10-20 seconds to move from one area to the other (depending on class, and start location) and If you actually try to have a mobile defensive squad (medic+pyro+soldier/demo) you can easily hang out in the connector tunnels and help defeding both points.

It wasn't designed with competative play in mind so it won't play godlike in tournaments, but it does what it should really well, provide a choice for the players while still keeping all classes important and useful.

--

For beta 3 that I'll release in a few days I have made some adjustments to help the defenders slightly. And I have reverted back to the sealed area technique, should improve the fps on the entire map.

 

[Lazy Eskimo]

Attacking c from b isn't much of a good option. You have to jump on the main path to cp. If you get hit by something you will just fall down.

locking B would make this into a linear 3 point a/d map. And yes, it would require tons of testing as it would mean all my 7 alpha release data become null.

It's already linear in optimum way to play it. A mess if not played optimum way. The only extra testing that would be needed is for best time to have it set to.

I think you're wrong in saying that gravel-pit style degrades tf2. It's the only cp point variant where you have a choice where to strike first. If anything It's the only style that provides something a little extra.

If your playing one cp you should have options of how to strike so that provides the variant.

In Gravelpit the red team spawns so much closer to B than A, so almost always will there be tougher defence at B. In Silvertrail both points are equally far away and they are very different from eachother. Engineers for example would prefer B for the sentry spots, while a soldier would choose A because of the height variation. I have found that it actually works really well in public, it only takes 10-20 seconds to move from one area to the other (depending on class, and start location) and If you actually try to have a mobile defensive squad (medic+pyro+soldier/demo) you can easily hang out in the connector tunnels and help defeding both points.

I don't agree with it being easy to have a mobile defense guarding both cp well in a pub.

It wasn't designed with competative play in mind so it won't play godlike in tournaments, but it does what it should really well, provide a choice for the players while still keeping all classes important and useful.

Competitive play magnifies problems in maps. If something is wrong in competitive play it's usually a problem for pubs. From a pug and competitive perspective I say gravel pit style doesn't work so good.

Anyway I never really expected you to change just hoped.

 

[uma plata]

Ummm...

Gravelpit is widely regarded as one of the best, if not the best, TF2 map

"From a pug and competitive perspective I say gravel pit style doesn't work so good."

Also, what?

 

[Lazy Eskimo]

Everyone thought the world was flat at one point. If it is considered the best map by people who don't know what they talking about it's still not good.