Discussion in 'Map Factory' started by Bakscratch, Aug 15, 2014.
Come on, cat.
I don't like mid, and I think most of the problems with the map stem from it.
The first problem I see is that it's basically one giant corridor of sightline-y death and it cuts straight through the middle of the map in a way that is completely unavoidable. I always wanted to stay in the green zones because all the low ground felt really unsafe - this included the point, I don't think I actually entered that building at all during the test. It also means that all the fighting takes place in and around this area and the fight never really entered enemy territory, players just cooped up and spammed down the sightline. This makes combat very boring as it just becomes a waiting game until one team works up the courage to cap before returning to their side of the map and spamming down the only route onto the point. Lastly, it means that the interior of each team's base saw virtually no combat. Which is a shame, because the base interiors looked like they would be fun to fight in.
I would suggest moving the position of the control point so that it's more central and the majority of combat happens on top of it, as opposed to the route leading to it. Then I would suggest you break up that big sightline through the middle of the map and add another route through mid. You could make a nice cave route that runs through the middle of the map, with entrances where I marked the two smaller safe zones in the above image.
Finally, this is just a thought I had when I was looking at your interiors again, and I reckon if you were to create more space inside the base - and made other necessary changes to mid - that this map could make a decent CTF map. Just a thought, take it or leave it.
Ripley-chan's oppantsu were so sugoi~ it makes me doki doki.
"They mostly design maps at night... mostly."
your point is a fukin fortress
A Team Fortress?
I love it! there aren't many space maps for tf2
Now 3cp map
added builing in to middle
moved spawns back
Back to koth
added cover on middle area
added cave route to mid
adjusted health and ammo
You should update the Original Post, it still says that nothings been changed yet
Change mid (Point now inland not overhanging)
Changed cave route to high ground
-Time for winning reduces on next stage
-change middle to make more interesting
-opened up map
-changed cave route
-some other things
Added outer side route
Added cover around mid
Removed slide (RIP)
removed health packs outside spawns
Duel of Fates
As soon as I get my desk + desktop set up in the new flat, i'll be giving this a run through. This looks so good.
-Changed stage 1 mid
-Changed some indoor areas by making larger
-Remade stage 2 into a asym a/d style, but still koth
If anyone has any feedback please let me know, I am somewhat unsure on what to do next.
So any feedback will help.
So...I really like how this looks. I'm thinking geometry-wise, this probably plays pretty well but I haven't actually played it yet so no comments there.
Some generic stuff that you are probably already aware of -
You have a few big no-draw spots:
This small gap outside spawn on stage 1 (both red+blu):
Got stuck - first stage just above the point area:
Brush on brush action:
A few, possibly, nitpicky things with the second point...
The pipes here: http://i.imgur.com/CGiZH6K.jpg
I really like this, very cool and probably some fun times with scout/spy/pyro. What I don't like about it is that the little ledge underneath, is only on 1 side. I would duplicate it or extend it and then move the pipes out a bit more. On my roll out I could get there and jump up/over the point from there quite easily and only one team having that ability probably doesn't work too well.
This ledge: http://i.imgur.com/lBnkZAl.jpg
Again, I like the idea. This could be a good spot for ambushes. You can however walk around to the edge of it and it appears as if you can get on top of the point, it's clipped off though. I'd make it more obvious you can't get on there, I really wanted to once I saw it.
The opposite ledge: http://i.imgur.com/TbCivTd.jpg
Different issue on this side, the spot is way better! Because the door way to the point is right there, this spot is far more likely to actually get you some kills. The other side is really just an ambush for the lower path but not the point itself.
I don't know how or if you can even balance the two spots right now but I think this side is much better. That being said I haven't played it yet and I was able to roll out faster on the Blu side - so it could be balanced as is but I thought it was worth mentioning.
I'm pretty tired right now so I hope this all makes sense. Excited to see you develop this, it's pretty cool and I really want to see it polished.
DISCLAIMER: I haven't actually played the map yet.
Gave the map a short look and generally found it slightly underscaled.
After spawn there is a doorway (at one of the sides) instantly after the spawndoor. This looks a bit odd, I think. I would move the spawn a bit back (left in the pic) and also make the post-spawn area larger. Also, the 128 HU gap between those two ramps (in the middle of the pic) is too little and makes the ramps feel finicky.
128 HU wide passageway? NO. That area beneath the battlements could be widened a bit as well, not just the passageway.
Actually, most of the battlements at mid feels just 32 - 64 HU too narrow. The mid itself could also be widened, I think it's currently around 1.5k HU and should be widened by at least 256 HU.
Layoutwise I don't have much to say (since I haven't played it yet), other than the left flank (BLU's perspective) feels very uninviting when attacking mid. The health could be enough to use the flank so I don't really know.
--- EDIT ---
Whoopsie, didn't know the map had two parts!
This is now quite interesting...
Not much to say about this second part except for a few minor things - You can crouch under the "bridge" (where the pipes are) and then the whole nodrawn spawnroom. Seems also extremely choky for one of the teams who have to push through two 128 wide and one 160 wide door at the point.
-Stage 1 Mid has more interesting geometry
-Stage 2 is smaller
-Stage 2 cap point is in slightly better location
I like what you've done with stage 2 with making the winner of stage 1 have a geographical advantage attacking the point. It's much cooler than just a time advantage. I think the balance is a bit one-sided at the moment though. (to the advantage of those who won stage 1)
I also feel like this needs a epic finale stage 3 and explosion, something like garbageday. maybe with one team being really close to the point, but they have to defend for 3 minutes while blue only has to cap and hold for 30 seconds to a minute. maybe its too much like an attack/defend map.
I've played a11 most recently, but also some older versions in the past.
Overall a11 feels like a very small, very rushed map. The new space stage feels kind of small and rather boring. There's one way onto and off the point for each team, and the point itself isn't very exciting. Like prestige said you might need a third stage as a grand finale because this one just won't cut it imo. Fighting around the point feels sorta awkward, might be better if it was a straight push instead of fighting around a U shape. Also, players rarely pushed past the point (at least when I played). This is technically fine, but most koth maps have more areas parallel to the point where fighting can take place.
I just can't enjoy playing on the first stage. It also feels small and favours sollies and demos quite a bit, since they can quickly get to the other side of the map and surprise the enemy while they roll out of their 'yard' building. After quickly flying around the map I also think there's too much geometry with the same 'size', if that makes sense. If it doesn't, it means that there's a lot of geometry with the same thickness, same visual noise, same level of eyecatchingness. Try making your buildings out of bigger, bolder blocks with clearly defined exits to focus the eye maybe, something like this
But I might be wrong about everything oh well
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