Random butthurt gameplay rant.

Discussion in 'Team Fortress 2 Talk' started by grazr, Sep 16, 2009.

  1. grazr

    aa grazr Old Man Mutant Ninja Turtle

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    Rate 'hacking' in TF2. Is this perhaps more widespread than people are willing to talk about? Or than that individuals are aware of? It's sprung up infrequently in the years i've spent playing this game. The average TF2 player seems to know bugger all about console commands and abusing/exploiting client side settings. So it doesn't come up much around these parts (the general TF2 community that is). I seem to remember certain steps were taken/implemented by Valve, giving better server control to server operators to prevent such further exploitation. And removing some rate control by clients altogether. But it was never really fully resolved.

    Rate 'hacking' as it was coined was a big thing in DoD and CS, "back in the day". Whereby players would manually set excessive rates for the client update and server refresh rates. Making ones hitbox jolt around whilst moving, but more importantly, cause other players to seemingly lag on your screen. Making for easy (seemingly stationary) kills.

    I average 15 ping in my regular server, so as far as i'm aware, i'm not legitimately lagging. But i'm getting an increasing amount of dodgey deaths from specific individuals, with equally decent latencies. Mostly from snipers and pyro's.

    A lot more, i am getting headshot as to what is apparent on my side, by a sniper as he stocks his rifle. A lot more, i am getting killed from the enemy battlements, and having my death cam observe my body inches away from my own spawn. What would be approx' 20ft behind cover. But what is suspicious, is that it comes from specific individuals rather than all players, or one off occurances.

    Secondly, are the mischievous pyro's. Now i don't play pyro very often, but when i do, it is often the case that it takes several seconds (3-5) to kill a demoman). I would be accused of being a crap aim with the flamethrower by most pyro players, but the "sizzling" effect that only occurs whilst direct flamethrower hits are made sounds through the entire (pointblank) exchange. Yet as soldier, i can be taken out in half the time (about 2-3 seconds). The thing that makes this suspicious is that i can kill a pyro whilst "kiting" him, only to have his already fired flames from his last living moments suddenly rush over me in a last lick of the air; and somehow do a full 70 damage on touch. A single flick licking me for around a total of 110, 120 damage. That can't be right.

    Several snipers have publicly admitted ingame to using custom rates to "improve" their ability to perform. Explaining and justifying that "if Valve didn't intend for it to be a part of standard gameplay, they wouldn't allow me to do this in the first place".

    Thoughts? Experiences? Answers?
     
  2. J4CK8

    J4CK8 L11: Posh Member

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    They all happen to me too. Especialy the pyro killing me instantly but takes me several seconds more. Aparntly it is due to the lag compensation, or so I keep getting told, but when everyone on the team has a ping below 50 it's just not right.
     
  3. Mr.Blob

    Mr.Blob L8: Fancy Shmancy Member

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    Don't you just hate a crit and a backburner combo? :O
     
  4. Wegason

    Wegason L4: Comfortable Member

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    It must be more widespread than at first appears as I have noticed recently that I've rushed round a corner only to be killed after getting behind cover by a sniper who has a ping of around 30-40 despite having been "safe" behind cover for what seemed like half a second.

    This would indicate to me that this "rate" thing is being used, and now I can explain why.

    Its cheating.
     
  5. MrAlBobo

    MrAlBobo L13: Stunning Member

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    I can honestly tell you that I have experienced this is virtually every fps ive ever played, I wouldn't really say this is something to be considered a problem...not an easily fixable problem anyways. And believe me...lag compensation is alot less annoying then the alternative...needing to shoot someone where they are on their screen...

    But...the instant death pyro thing grazr talked about...that sounded damn suspicious, ive never seen that happen, and it sounds like something that shouldn't happen.

    I personally have my rates set at 67...as it keeps my connection stable and doesn't really change my ping
     
  6. Terr

    aa Terr Cranky Coder

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    Well, if it's happening with flames too, than it might be in your head. Flames aren't lag compensated, so mucking about with your rates oughtn't affect them that way.

    There is a known bug of uncertain cause where the flamethrower's range/speed varies by +/-15% from normal, but that doesn't sound like the problem.
     
  7. J4CK8

    J4CK8 L11: Posh Member

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    Talking about flame range-Why does my flame never ignite anyone when im bumping into them, yet I die from literaly 5meters away from flames. Same with mellee too.
     
  8. Wegason

    Wegason L4: Comfortable Member

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    Yes but the lag compensation I can account for if headshotted while round the corner and the sniper had ping over 100, but when the guy has better ping than me I cannot understand it.
     
  9. Ravidge

    aa Ravidge Grand Vizier

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    Tweaking rates and interp and that always sounded like it was much more work than it was worth to me.

    Honestly I don't think it makes a differance at all. It's a placebo :)
     
  10. PL-7764

    PL-7764 L6: Sharp Member

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    I have the flame issues too. I can die in 0.5 seconds as a Heavy from a Pyro with the standard flamethrower, no crits involved, but it takes 2 seconds minimum (I've timed it with bots and regular players) for me to take down a Heavy with the standard flamethrower without getting crits. The flamethrower does have some range issues too - I've been ignited on the sniper deck in 2fort by a Pyro on the bridge. He wasn't even using a flare gun. :facepalm:

    I've been sniped through walls a couple times too, but I find my biggest problem is with wallhackers. I was once backstabbed through a wall by a Spy who in the freezecam was in a position he could not possibly have been in without me seeing him pass from behind me and around 2 corners. The deathcam also continued pointing in one direction the whole time before the freezecam, indicating that the spy never moved from his original positon after stabbing me (the camera usually follows the killer until zooming in for the freezecam).
    Another time (just a couple days ago actually) a sniper with the Huntsman came around a corner and headshotted me. Not like a random shot that just happened to hit - he was all poised for the shot and ready to shoot exactly where I was standing when he rounded the corner. Not quite the same thing, but I swear he could at least see me around the corner before coming in to make the kill.
     
  11. J4CK8

    J4CK8 L11: Posh Member

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    I wouldn't be too quick to assume that as cheating. I've done it a few times, especialy with scouts. I quite oftern get my arrow ready when rounding corners just in case, then get the luckiest, quickest reaction shot I ever pull off.
     
  12. PL-7764

    PL-7764 L6: Sharp Member

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    Perhaps "around the corner" wasn't the best way of putting it (I wrote that in a bit of a hurry). The way it worked was that I was a Pyro in that little area across from one of the spawns in 2fort, where you can drop down through the square hole into the main hallway leading into the base, near the spiral hallway down to the intel. I was crouched on the narrow side (towards the main base entrances - the side that no one can see up to without being in the base) to ambush anyone who came through when the sniper came in with his arrow ready and shot me the instant he was in range to do so. I guess it's more of a vertical "corner" ... still, I have no idea how he could've seen me to precisely line up his shot before coming in. I don't think my flamethrower was (or could have been?) sticking out through the hole with the position I was in. I guess it could've been luck, but looking over the situation it still feels wrong.

    I'm still not completely convinced he wasn't cheating - later the same guy was hiding out in the stairs down to the intel room just off the courtyard and shooting apparently through the wall there - I couldn't see him, but his arrows kept coming from that direction and pegging me. He was probably leaning around the corner just enough to fire each one and ducking back immediately, which would explain me not seeing him. But how he managed to always hit me no matter where I moved to is beyond me, as I was on the upper level there going back and forth and he got me with every single shot. No headshots, but he still hit me repeatedly. That's the incident that bugs me the most with this particular guy. It was also another instance of him being able to let off an arrow in just the right spot to have it hit the target without him being vulnerable. As I said, no matter where I went, he always, ALWAYS hit me. There is no way anyone could get lucky that many times if you ask me.

    Eh, maybe I'm just paranoid because I tend to die more than anyone else on my team. :p
     
  13. bauxite

    bauxite L1: Registered

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    source is just dodgy in some ways ...

    im sure valve would quickly become aware of any exploit if there was any.
     
  14. J4CK8

    J4CK8 L11: Posh Member

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    Huntsman...hitboxes...need I say more? Chances are he was in a glicthed spot, somewhere you couldn't see him properly/clearly, or just as you said yourself, moving in/out of cover. The arrow only needs to be aimed around your body/where your body will be to be a hit most times.

    It's the no-headshots bit that makes me think he's less of a hacker, unless he uses a hack to aim at the body to not arrouse suspicion. Perhaps it was just his very lucky day? :p But yeah, I've fired a few arrows, and got a kill long after I moved, but not one after another etc.
     
  15. Terr

    aa Terr Cranky Coder

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    Note that since flames are not lag-compensated, there's extra time (like with rockets) between when you hold down the button and when the flames come out. Not 1.5 seconds worth, perhaps...

    That's probably an alt-tab bug on your computer, rather than the Spy's fault. You can fix it by recording a demo for a second or two and then stopping. Basically your computer got (through alt-tabbing or a lag spike) slightly out-of-sync from the server's copy, which leads to weird things like enemies "stuck" in the same place but who are actually elsewhere or sideways turrets.