Ramparts

ChickenLover

L2: Junior Member
Jun 28, 2008
95
19
Played this for map test day. I really like the idea. I don't think it is going to work well without HUD support though. I found it very difficult to know when to rush back to defend. Unless it gets support by Valve or you figure out some sort of workaround I think this level is going to be a) very confusing, and b) difficult to play.

Other stuff which I'm sure you're aware of.
Some bsp not lined up to the doors.
Some bsp not lined up to the floor.
 

lana

Currently On: ?????
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Sep 28, 2009
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This was pretty fun, but you need to e-mail Valve about that HUD. I'd like to see more later. So far, you need to work on lining up your doorways and need to make it less sniper happy.
 

UKCS-Alias

Mann vs Machine... or... Mapper vs Meta?
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Sep 8, 2008
1,264
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I did email valve about it. But i think its something with a very low priority, simply because there wasnt any map beind made that does require such hud support. For the CTF hud there were alot of maps being made so thats why that one went fast... but if you look at meridian... how many months did that map have to wait for that update?

Im being patient atm, i first want to have the basic square done to get a real TC feeling before im going to hint valve on fixing it again.

It seems that C vs D was quite narrow to some. The reason for that was that i dont want to tracks to be too long. Ideal for me is having it the pipeline length. I might be able to extend the stage a bit but it would result in changes to A vs B also which im making now. At least that stage does support it (in fact, extending the map there is good for the gameplay) so ill see what i come up with. Its definitely not a problem though, the map is pre alpha for a reason. Its the feedback that is realy welcome to me.

Also note that stage C vs D was aimed to be quite sniper friendly. At first it actualy was too friendly for snipers which is why the track has many low roof areas. Im going to try to find a way to improve that also. At least the extending will make it possible to stop the sniper spam alot better.

The next version of my map probably will take about 2 weeks as i will add A vs B in it also.
 

UKCS-Alias

Mann vs Machine... or... Mapper vs Meta?
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Sep 8, 2008
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I made a test version for just the stage C vs D... I havent changed that much but i did split the routes a bit more and made the spawns in such a way to spread the players a bit more and direct them to some other routes. The inside has changed most by even having a completely new area.

This version also has the PLR hud fully working because as its just 1 stage i can remove the TC system from that version and use CP groups.

The file is hosted somewhere else because the full version should be at the download link here and not just a single stage.
Download tc_ramparts_t7_round_cd from ukcs.net

Btw, if you want you can take a peek at how A vs B will look by noclipping.

I will try to get this version in a gameday as i need the feedback on C vs D. A vs B isnt completely finished yet as i havent done a private playtest on it yet and because it might change depending on C vs D. A vs B in this state is a stage too much like a DM anyway.
 

OlafK

L2: Junior Member
Sep 12, 2009
55
16
Lol, 5 days ago I've came out with same idea while not knowing your map :) Looks interesting :D
 

UKCS-Alias

Mann vs Machine... or... Mapper vs Meta?
aa
Sep 8, 2008
1,264
816
People said in the test its still deathmatchy but i wonder how deathmatchy it actualy is and if its a problem. If everyone likes it like this i wont change it anymore, otherwise i will change it again. suggestions on where and what to improve are welcome.

Note: im used to these battles due to playing on IR servers all the time so i cant realy judge it myself.

Well, i did try to get a few ideas to change the routes to be more seperated which should stop of the deathmatchyness (what a word).

Just comment on the image or edit it yourself to show me your ideas :)
rampartscvsdfixidea.jpg


the cyan dotted lines are the walkable routes. the number says which seperate route it is (they now no longer are connected to each other in the image)
 
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UKCS-Alias

Mann vs Machine... or... Mapper vs Meta?
aa
Sep 8, 2008
1,264
816
I have done some changes on C vs D but as i had my playtest this week already i cant test it yet. So instead i started working on A vs C in texturing and detailing. Here some screens:

tc_ramparts_t7b0006.jpg

tc_ramparts_t7b0007.jpg

tc_ramparts_t7b0008.jpg

tc_ramparts_t7b0009.jpg


And yes, the looks are inspired by pipeline.
 

UKCS-Alias

Mann vs Machine... or... Mapper vs Meta?
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Sep 8, 2008
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The map has been updated to A1a

A new stage is added, C vs D is edited. On A vs C i started to texture/detail.
 

UKCS-Alias

Mann vs Machine... or... Mapper vs Meta?
aa
Sep 8, 2008
1,264
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Gameday bump

Things i noticed was:
- Stage A vs B was actualy confusing in the setup, people didnt know where the cart was
- At CP B it was dark
- The A vs B stage was short
- I had the idea that half of A vs B wasnt used at all
- Stage C vs D was less deathmatchy... a good thing. Still, a few areas werent used alot, should make them a bit more clear.
- The first hill push in C vs D was too early, a quite useless push.
 

Jindo

L3: Member
Aug 6, 2009
121
123
Played this last night, and quite enjoyed it.

As you said in game, due to the lack of stages that it was not technically a TC map yet. The other issue you're aware of is the HUD not displaying both teams, I definitely recommend contacting Valve about adding that to Hammer!

Besides that, I think it was the first stage which was far too dark, in some areas there were absolutely no lights, I definitely recommend looking in to that.

Also, I'm wondering why another PLR map has to take place at night. To me it feels like another PLR map at night is just another Pipeline (though I'm sure this will be very different once it's completed), it would be nice to see a fresh look on a PLR map!

No real gameplay issues, besides the lighting in the first stage, everything else played quite nicely and I enjoyed the map, good job on it so far!

I also have what I believe to be the most awesome screenshot ever (straight from this map last night):

tc_ramparts_a1a0000.jpg

~Contortionist Soldier.
 

UKCS-Alias

Mann vs Machine... or... Mapper vs Meta?
aa
Sep 8, 2008
1,264
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Played this last night, and quite enjoyed it.

As you said in game, due to the lack of stages that it was not technically a TC map yet. The other issue you're aware of is the HUD not displaying both teams, I definitely recommend contacting Valve about adding that to Hammer!
I actualy want to have 4 stages first. Then at least there is a real TC system and then im probably more likely to get valve to fix that.
Besides that, I think it was the first stage which was far too dark, in some areas there were absolutely no lights, I definitely recommend looking in to that.

Also, I'm wondering why another PLR map has to take place at night. To me it feels like another PLR map at night is just another Pipeline (though I'm sure this will be very different once it's completed), it would be nice to see a fresh look on a PLR map!
The light issue was me turning of a visgroup which also had some lights... (at the cap area of B). That gave a very dark area.

The reason why my map is dark and is based on the pipeline look has multiple reasons.
- I liked the pipeline look
- my map is somewhat PLR so that makes it fit well with pipeline. Sadly people are a bit sick of the old desert look and variation is welcome.
- Optimizing is important for me also. This means i need to have quite low detail. The advantage of a dark map is that light will also be some detail. Further, props that normaly would be clearly visible can now be hidden at a long distance and nobody would notice it. Its another reason/advantage i get from it.
- Its not alpine. Even though alpine looks good its already overused to me. Same with the desert look, too many maps have it and thats why a new look is more prefered to me.
- Lighting the map isnt any issue at all for me. In fact, red faction (where i used to map for) works in allmost the same way!

I sense a neo hax... You dirty bullet dodger
 

A Boojum Snark

Toraipoddodezain Mazahabado
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Nov 2, 2007
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You say you can't use the hud because the overview won't work. Honestly... I don't even know what you are thinking? Hardly anyone even uses/looks at the overview map. A proper functioning hud is far more important. You tried to make it balanced by being symetrical, but really all the tests have been null and void because of the hud imbalance. Information is the greatest weapon, and bad hud means no info for one team. Ditch the overview if it mean you get a hud, because I do not see this map ever working without the hud.
 

Jindo

L3: Member
Aug 6, 2009
121
123
You say you can't use the hud because the overview won't work ...

Now that I fully understand (or atleast understand enough) the problem with the HUD, I have to agree that in terms of testing, you really don't need that overview screen right now, the cart indicator is vital to fair gameplay in this game mode.

I'd say take Boojum's advice and ditch the overview for now, ideally the overview and the HUD together would be nice, but you need to get accurate playtests for now, you can always contact Valve later regarding this problem.
 

UKCS-Alias

Mann vs Machine... or... Mapper vs Meta?
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Sep 8, 2008
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Thanks to some support of ABS i finaly managed to get a working hud. The issue i came with before was that when i added cp groups the map wouldnt select the round to play well. Or a team would win the map after only capping 1 point. The workarround i now have works fine. Still, as im making a 4th stage atm i will finish that one first before ill try to get another test.

At least the only bugs with the hud i have now are:
- On capping a point it says you win by the timelimit. Everyone knows better anyway as there is no timer in the first place (minor)
- No overview (minor)
- The CPs people attack show up wrong on the plr hud (probably coused by the cp groups not matching the team they are ment for in pipeline). But thats minor again as at least people see how far they are as the rest works all fine.
 

UKCS-Alias

Mann vs Machine... or... Mapper vs Meta?
aa
Sep 8, 2008
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Massive Bump!

Ok, after remaking stage A vs B 2 times because i didnt like the first 2 versions (and taking a break for 2 months just to get ideas on how i could get it fun without getting it like a ripoff from pipeline) Here come some screenshots:

tc_ramparts_a3a0003.jpg

tc_ramparts_a3a0004.jpg

tc_ramparts_a3a0005.jpg


As you can see its a bit inspired on pipeline but its diffirent enough from it. It contains 2 medium slopes and 1 big slope (which is covered a bit) per track. After that big slope there is some longer horizontal part allowing the other team to catch up when the enemy cart reached the top. Its not that you are defeated when they reached it. Also, the cart is on the enemy side making it a bit harder to reach.

It took me alot of time getting it in a way that i like it while its still far enough from pipeline. I dont want to copy an area but inspiring is fine. Soon im going to get a test version ready of this stage.

(also, B vs D is partialy made but far from completed - no screens of that yet)
 

UKCS-Alias

Mann vs Machine... or... Mapper vs Meta?
aa
Sep 8, 2008
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Ok, i made a new overview map which is a big improvement compared to the last one.



Also note that its tested on an older version of the map (a test version where A and D were made red to gets a real random order in the battles and B wasnt functional yet and therefor also shows up red - in this case thats an advantage). In the newest versions i cant get the overview to work unless i break the PLR hud.
 

lana

Currently On: ?????
aa
Sep 28, 2009
3,075
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How would B vs. D work? Totally different track or...?
 

UKCS-Alias

Mann vs Machine... or... Mapper vs Meta?
aa
Sep 8, 2008
1,264
816
Massive bump again!

But now its a version that fully is TC now.

http://forums.tf2maps.net/downloads.php?do=file&id=2519

And best of all, im only at ~50% of the max dynamics allowed atm! This means i can still add alot.

And a screen of B vs D (slightly older screen as i havent made newer ones yet - but there is only 1 day between the time of the screenshot and now)
tc_ramparts_a40002.jpg
 

UKCS-Alias

Mann vs Machine... or... Mapper vs Meta?
aa
Sep 8, 2008
1,264
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I have been busy with detailing a stage again:
tc_ramparts_a50003.jpg

tc_ramparts_a50004.jpg

tc_ramparts_a50005.jpg

tc_ramparts_a50006.jpg

tc_ramparts_a50007.jpg


Note, the lights at the last screen are indeed a bit too high, noticed that after i made the screens and didnt bother about recompiling again for just that while it will be fixed later anyway
 

Rasputin

L3: Member
Sep 20, 2008
107
20
Certainly looks interesting. The transition from wood to concrete is a bit odd though.