I understand that. I didn't make a "new" version because it was literally 40 minutes later and figured it was mostly harmless.
Side note: the final version is released.
Side note: the final version is released.
- Thread starter Monsterclip
- Start date
I wouldn't go too far to say final JUST yet. Final is "officially in game" and even then, not many use final.
Your detailing is pretty busy (cluttered, eyes go everywhere) and gameplay kind of flat. If you are going to enter this into the contest, use the next 12 days to tweek these things.
Your detailing is pretty busy (cluttered, eyes go everywhere) and gameplay kind of flat. If you are going to enter this into the contest, use the next 12 days to tweek these things.
I appreciate the feedback Fr0zen, but there comes a time in every designer's life when he has to let his baby go.
I think the map plays well. The more extreme vertical gameplay and detail clutter are things that I generally need to work on in TF2 design-land. I won't be endlessly fiddling with this map to get those results, though.
The design is essentially what I set out to do. I also wanted to learn a lot about designing for this game and using these tools. I did just that. I may take my lessons and move on to another TF2 map. We'll have to see. When I say the map is final, I mean that it is final in actual terms, not whatever naming convention this site uses to decide what is what. I am moving up and not updating it anymore unless there is a progression blocking bug. Content locked. Gold Master. Ship it.
I don't want to take for granted the feedback I received, I literally just don't have time to implement it. My time is stretched very thin between work and home right now.
I think the map plays well. The more extreme vertical gameplay and detail clutter are things that I generally need to work on in TF2 design-land. I won't be endlessly fiddling with this map to get those results, though.
The design is essentially what I set out to do. I also wanted to learn a lot about designing for this game and using these tools. I did just that. I may take my lessons and move on to another TF2 map. We'll have to see. When I say the map is final, I mean that it is final in actual terms, not whatever naming convention this site uses to decide what is what. I am moving up and not updating it anymore unless there is a progression blocking bug. Content locked. Gold Master. Ship it.
I don't want to take for granted the feedback I received, I literally just don't have time to implement it. My time is stretched very thin between work and home right now.
Vilepickle
Banned
- Oct 25, 2007
- 372
- 199
Damn, that is awesome concept art!
I had a little time this weekend to do a quick trailer for the map, and finish up the page on my portfolio site. Give it a look if you get a sec!
Quagmire Trailer
Quagmire Trailer
This guy made the TF2 Bomb cart, not "eric johnson". And by eric johnson, I assume you mean Tim "The man who gets all the jussy" Johnson.
TheKieranator
L6: Sharp Member
- Mar 6, 2011
- 282
- 213
He never said anything about who made the bomb cart, Fr0z3n. He said that Eric "ChickenLover" Johnson made the TNT props for the blockades at each point. Here they are.
... this is what I get for trying to be right at 4am after waking up to minor food poisoning. Sorry.
pl_quagmire
Gameplay
The main problem with gameplay in this map, is how many flanking routes the map has. It is hard for both Red and Blue teams to set up a base, without getting attacked from behind. The map has a lot of flanks leading to almost any point of the map, which really destroys the fun playing as engineer, as it is impossible to set up a sentry. This actually is one of the main reasons why blue team does a massive roll.
Cramped fighting space doesn't give any advantage either, it's actually more annoying than fun. And it often seen that players just try to follow the more open areas, than risking going into cramped space, where barely any fighting happens.
While 1st and 2nd capture point is okay for engies and red team to defend, as you can still find a place to set up. But 3rd and final area is really bad, and boring especially for red team. Changing environment from cramped one route around 3rd capture point to a open final area, really gives no opportunity or space for setting up a defense.
Balance
The main issue in this map, is that Blue team scores more wins than Red team, around 60%/40%, which shows that the map has some issues when it comes to defending the capture points. For me it seems, that the map often is a easy roll for blue team, rarely ever moving away from cart.
Class wise, the map has quite a lot of issues. First of all, the map is really flat, with a lack of height advantage. In the same time most of the map feels like a choke, especially indoor areas which have low ceilings, not a lot of fighting happens out there, due to the lack of turning space.
Because of the cramped space, playing as a spy is really however fun, especially in the 1st/2nd capture point areas, since it has a lot of cramped space, flanking routes, and in the same time water pool, which spy can jump in and return back after a while.
Dynamic element
Even though being creative and unique, these explosions cant really be called dynamic. It feels more like it was made to stop blue team from doing a massive roll, than actually being dynamic. Players playing the map first time, rarely ever notice the bombs, which often leads to their death and annoyance.
It feels that the idea is really cool, but could be done much better.
Aesthetics
The map really looks like a small swamp village, in both aspects, buildings in this case are really small and cramped. And outdoors aren't any better, it lacks interesting open areas, most of them aesthetics wise are rather flat and boring. It isn't really necessary to follow the theme so accurate, you can always think outside the box, adding something which would fit in the theme, and also create interesting fighting space.
One thing that i really disliked were the soundscapes, i haven't ever played a map which had such loud soundscape, wherever you will go, you will either hear water drips or bug lanterns. It was really annoying, because often those sounds were louder than actual weapons.
Else wise, the map feels really over detailed, without any progression, which actually costed a lot in both Aesthetics and Performance, since most of the map is full of useless prop spam, which weren't actually needed, or just were added without thinking.
Some things, I have noticed:
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1607727/Contest/quagmire/pl_quagmire0021.jpg
I still can shoot though windows.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1607727/Contest/quagmire/pl_quagmire0022.jpg
This bug lantern is heard when you spawn.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1607727/Contest/quagmire/pl_quagmire0024.jpg
Prop spam with adding the croc in a unneeded place.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1607727/Contest/quagmire/pl_quagmire0025.jpg
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1607727/Contest/quagmire/pl_quagmire0030.jpg
Water drips also very loud.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1607727/Contest/quagmire/pl_quagmire0026.jpg
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1607727/Contest/quagmire/pl_quagmire0027.jpg
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1607727/Contest/quagmire/pl_quagmire0028.jpg
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1607727/Contest/quagmire/pl_quagmire0029.jpg
Prop spam.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1607727/Contest/quagmire/pl_quagmire0031.jpg
Random texturing.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1607727/Contest/quagmire/pl_quagmire0032.jpg
A really dark room.
Performance
The main problem in performance was the lack of any optimization, at least it seems so. Most of the players had performance issues running the map with less fps than in any other contest, and often valve map.
The prop spam doesn't really help with increasing the performance, as it just makes things worse.
Even though the mapper has labeled this version as the last one, it really needs a lot of work, to make the map better.