CP Proletariat

[JeanPaul]

So, I got a plan to make a map for TF2 and I started just about a few weeks ago getting the layout done and I am almost there.

Things that annoy me in the TF2 mapping community:
-Flat maps
-Mirror layouts
-Same boring art style (I mean there is room for slightly different themes even without making custom content)

So, I am making a non mirrored layout with an emphasis on vertical gameplay. The layout is borrowed from Dod_avalanche, (and will be heavily modified with my various changes) and so is the order in which you capture points. Once a team has the middle (of five total) point captured, the remaining two are open to capture in any order.

One last thing, how do I go about getting this on a server to test? I dont really want to make anymore additions or changes until I can test this VERY early version of the map for really blatant errors and problems.

EDIT: Here is an overview shot of the layout from an old compile:
http://i.imgur.com/WQWxj.jpg

 

[Jeremy]

You can enter gamedays to get your map tested. Bear in mind that the most recent one (that's taking place tomorrow) is pretty much completely booked so you'll have to wait for the next one. The map slots go quite quickly.

As for the map itself, it looks really cramped and enclosed, and I fear this might give soldiers and demomen (and pyros to a lesser extent) a formidable advantage over the other classes and in turn end up turning every round into a rockety boomy spam fest. Also it's generally not a good idea to have a direct line of sight to two or more control points simultaneously.

Height variation is awesome though, and I'm interested in how this turns out.

 

[JeanPaul]

Okay awesome, I will enter into that shit, son.

As for your criticisms on the map layout, I agree and disagree - which is why I want to test super early!

The main CP areas are a little cramped compared to official maps, but this is what I believe will make this map unique - each area has multiple paths around it, so at no point will the entire team be cramped into one area, there is always an alternate path. Its a little cramped, but I believe it will be spread out cramped! If that makes any sense

 

[Crash]

I think a big issue, from what I can tell with screenshots, is how tall looking the map is. Its very imposing on the player to have these massive towers rising up all around them.

The whole map is in shadow because everything is so high up around the player. Lower the buildings that don't need to be tall and let some light in.

The height variation is nice but I worry it's a bit too tall. We'll see in gamedays, though.

 

[phi]

I think the only thing that really bugs me is the staircase in the first shot.
It really really scares me to think of climbing that with someone at the top.

Otherwise, I really love height variation -- make some wooden buildings out of that and it would look astounding. The gameplay sounds different too, hopefully this can be played soon.

Just remember that height over 256 will cause fall damage, so you really want to refrain from a ton of those drops, maybe one or two in an important area.

 

[JeanPaul]

I think a big issue, from what I can tell with screenshots, is how tall looking the map is. Its very imposing on the player to have these massive towers rising up all around them.

The whole map is in shadow because everything is so high up around the player. Lower the buildings that don't need to be tall and let some light in.

The height variation is nice but I worry it's a bit too tall. We'll see in gamedays, though.

This is the point! What I lack in horizontal space, I make up for in vertical space. Its a sort of experiment. I also have room to expand in certain areas if need be. Its a tough layout to work with, but I can manage in most areas.

Also the lighting is directly ripped from pl_upward and is not to be critiqued until I actually start to light it There will be plenty of light in the final version haha.

I think the only thing that really bugs me is the staircase in the first shot.
It really really scares me to think of climbing that with someone at the top.

Otherwise, I really love height variation -- make some wooden buildings out of that and it would look astounding. The gameplay sounds different too, hopefully this can be played soon.

Just remember that height over 256 will cause fall damage, so you really want to refrain from a ton of those drops, maybe one or two in an important area.

The staircase in the first shot is IMMEDIATELY next to red spawn and will rarely see action due to its placement. The original layout (dod_avalanche) had a ladder here instead, and since TF2 is not a ladder friendly environment, I put the stairs. The stairs are mainly going to be used as a way to get red up and into the battle in other areas.

Thanks for the headsup on the drop, I do know I need to be careful with that. If its ever a problem anywhere, I can add certain things to either lessen the height or avoid the height.

Also, I have a name now!

EDIT: How can I change the thread title to match the name of my map?

 

[xzzy]

I think the tall tower aesthetic is actually kind of cool.. but you have to be careful about how much of it is playable space. Height is a big deal in TF2 and giving players too much of it will confer significant advantages.

You have to keep in mind effective weapon ranges. Shooting from a great height triggers damage falloff just like a shot down a narrow hallway, which puts you at risk of stagnating play as players plink low damage shots from total safety.

Last but not least, height variation strongly favors soldiers and demos. You have to think long and hard about how the other 7 classes will be able to navigate the play area without the advantage of explosive jumps.

 

[Crash]

And I didn't mean anything about your playable space. Every building is miles above the player and looks imposing.

 

[Kill_the_Bug]

Um...not to say that this isn't original in concept...I like the opening shot and the tower but the rest of the map looks like a complete replica of a Day od Defeat map in images 2,4,5

 

[TheKieranator]

That's because it is.

The layout is borrowed from Dod_avalanche, (and will be heavily modified with my various changes) and so is the order in which you capture points.

I'm interested in seeing how this map evolves. Keep at it.

 

[Kill_the_Bug]

Yes I like it

 

[JeanPaul]

Can an admin or moderator rename the this thread as it appears in the forum to "cp_proletariat"? Thank you.

Well, I got some more done to the layout, namely the spawn areas and the factory type area (a side route with no influence from the main area)

Red spawn

Red spawn from the other side

Outside red spawn viewing first point

Blue spawn from back

Blue spawn viewing the back

Added area to blue point

One of the side routes. To the bottom right is a red point and to the upper left is near a blue point. Straight up the stairs is a mid-area sniper nest.

Another view of this side route

 

[GPuzzle]

SO MANY STAIRS. But I think the height variation can atually work.

 

[tyler]

Great dramatic lighting. None of it will lead to good gameplay. Add some lamps to reduce the shadows.

 

[JeanPaul]

The lighting is only temporary. The final will be VERY well lit.

 

[LeSwordfish]

Alphas need to be well lit too, i'm afraid.

 

[JeanPaul]

Alphas need to be well lit too, i'm afraid.

This is a good point, Ill be sure to light everything really well before I get an alpha out no matter how temporary it is, I will make sure everything is visible.

I did some toying around with some lighting ideas a little bit just now and came up with some cool ideas. I think I want to go in the general direction seen in doublecross but I am not sure yet.

What do you guys find more interesting? Night or day maps?

 

[RaVaGe]

I think the day map looks more interesting because you play a lot with the outside setting, and in the night, its way more hard to see it, but it can be a cool thing if you have a lot of problems to lead the eye of the player.

So for me -> day map for the look, but if you see that you have some problems with the visibility of the player, why not try a night map.

 

[JeanPaul]

Got some more done and I hope to test REAL soon. I thought you guys might like this:

 

[RaVaGe]

These heights scares me, be aware of the fact that in tf2, the height is very important, and these doors on the top seems really hard to reach, but the playtest will say more.

Also, I already wich you good luck to balance this map with all this height variation, did you already made some test with bots to see if it's not a steamroll for a team ? But, it's already a really good project, and has a level designer from BMS, i'm sure you will turn this one into a solid map.