Problematique (circuit payload)

Discussion in 'Map Factory' started by Dr. Spud, Jun 6, 2009.

  1. Dr. Spud

    aa Dr. Spud Grossly Incandescent

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    pl_problematique (circuit payload!)
    by Dr. Spud


    Problematique uses a new game mode, which I'm calling payload circuit. It is a four-point attack/defend payload map that (guess what) runs in a circuit. The blue team must capture as many control points as possible before the timer runs out. The size of the map is a bit smaller than two sections of goldrush.

    The way it works is the track is in a rough circular shape, and the spawns are in the center of the map, one on top of the other. There are two sides of the map, and depending on which point the cart is at, one side will be closed off while the other is being played on. The spawn exits will direct each team to the start and end of that half of the map. For example, if the blu team is capturing points 1 and 2, they begin right next to point four, and the red team starts behind point 2. Once point 2 is captured, the spawn exits change to open up the other half of the map.

    Various gates, walls, and other contraptions pop up and down to make sure people aren't wandering around aimlessly. :p
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2009
  2. A Boojum Snark

    aa A Boojum Snark Toraipoddodezain Mazahabado

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    Very interesting idea. It's good to see promising new gametypes being thought up.
     
  3. Penguin

    aa Penguin Clinically Diagnosed with Small Mapper's Syndrome

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    This would actually be very cool with 2 payloads. I'm interested to see how this develops.
     
  4. pl

    pl L5: Dapper Member

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    I think this gametype definitely has potential. But I just want to be cleared up on this though - does BLU need to capture at least one point to win the game? Or does RED have a turn with the payload after and they have to beat BLU's score? I'm a little confused.
     
  5. Dr. Spud

    aa Dr. Spud Grossly Incandescent

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    You take turns playing offense.
     
  6. Mexican Apple Thief

    Mexican Apple Thief L3: Junior Member<br>LEAD FARMER

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    And whoever capped the most points wins?
     
  7. Dr. Spud

    aa Dr. Spud Grossly Incandescent

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    Well yeah that's the idea.
     
  8. DaFatCat

    DaFatCat L3: Member

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    It would be cool if both teams have a payload and whoever can push their payload into the back of the enemy payload wins.
     
  9. A Boojum Snark

    aa A Boojum Snark Toraipoddodezain Mazahabado

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    That's been done, and personally I think Spud's single payload A/D method is a far better approach. It should keep the game feeling like there is progress and there is a clear goal. With the "chase them down" it just gets stale if the teams are too even.
     
  10. MangyCarface

    aa MangyCarface Mapper

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    Make sure that the map scores by points, not by round wins :)
     
  11. Jive Turkey

    Jive Turkey L3: Member

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    Why not make it so if you cap 4 times you automatically get a team point, but if you can't get 4, then it is up to the next team to beat whatever score you did get and the winner of that decides who gets the team point. That way a team is rewarded outright for good offense (capping 4 times), while the defenders are rewarded for a good defense (a chance at taking the team point themselves).
     
  12. Dr. Spud

    aa Dr. Spud Grossly Incandescent

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    That sounds a little on the complicated side. I'd rather leave the scoring as simply capping as many points as possible on offense. It's easier to understand, and it should still give the defense incentive to stop blu from matching their score.
     
  13. Randdalf

    aa Randdalf

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    If it goes in a loop... how will it work HUD-wise, i.e. who will own a point after it's passed, because you'd have to give control back to red each time if you wanted blu to cap it again.
     
  14. Dr. Spud

    aa Dr. Spud Grossly Incandescent

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    I'm thinking of making the CPs neutral, and making a custom model so that they are recharge stations for the cart. That way it makes sense, because blue is pushing the cart to stop it from exploding. As for the HUD... I don't know, I haven't thought about it yet.

    I'm trying to get a playable version ready for the next gameday. After playing it I think everyone will get a much better idea of how the map works.
     
  15. Penguin

    aa Penguin Clinically Diagnosed with Small Mapper's Syndrome

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    I meant make it a racing mode.
     
  16. DrHaphazard

    DrHaphazard L5: Dapper Member

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    I always love to see new and clever game modes. I think the greatest advantage here is the simplicity of the concept, although I admit that the changing spawn rooms might be confusing for the players.

    How long are you thinking of making the rounds? 10 minutes? How long would it take to get from one point to the next if it was maxed out all the way?

    In any case I can't wait to see this in action.

    EDIT: I was just thinking about the capture points you were talkin about. How bout making the last capped point be blue and the next one to be capped red? Having one capture point be red might be visually useful for the defenders, give them a rallying point. The other two would be neutral of course.

    The blue cp would also let you know what youve already capped, even if the cart rolled backwards past that point (or will a cart rolling backwards nullify a previously capped point? (can you actually uncap a point because the cart rolled backwards??))

    The HUD is a problem though, perhaps instead of making it be the cart on the track hud you should just have the capture point boxes with the CPs labeled so you know what point was capped last and what point is the next objective.

    Damnit I want to play this game now!
     
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    Last edited: Jun 8, 2009
  17. Dr. Spud

    aa Dr. Spud Grossly Incandescent

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    I honestly don't know yet. For now I think I'll double the starting time you get for one section of goldrush, and give less than 5 minutes for each cap. After playing it I'll have a better idea of the timing.

    I know what you mean about giving red a rallying point. I'll have to differentiate the next uncaptured point somehow. Especially if the HUD gives me trouble...

    Right now the cart won't roll back past a captured point (I can re-enable the disabled track segments on the second lap).
     
  18. DrHaphazard

    DrHaphazard L5: Dapper Member

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    Hmm, I was under the impression that blu had a set time to make their circuits, will they actually get more time each time they capture a point? I was just thinking of the attention span of the average TF2er, I know most servers dont like having a map up for more than 30 minutes, so I was thinking that each side would be given their 15 minutes to cap points.

    Do you have to use the normal payload track HUD when you use a payload or is it possible to use the CP HUD? I was thinking if you could use the CP...ah hell let me just draw it in paint real fast...

    [​IMG]

    If its possible to do this instead of the payload track it would fairly nicely show the concept of the map and how its a continuous circle instead of a point a to point b thing. to allow you to do the arrows you could have hidden cps under the map that dont normally do things, although I thought it might be neat if the arrow leading to the next point was blue also.

    Ah right so the cart would stop at the recharge station. Probably a good idea.
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2009
  19. Dr. Spud

    aa Dr. Spud Grossly Incandescent

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    Good thinking about the standard 30 min. per map. I think I'll try out the 15 min. per team thing in the first build. But I still want to add some time on a capture, even if it's only a little bit. It would help avoid a situation where the attackers mess up the first few captures and give up because they feel like they won't have enough time to win. Plus, it would be weird to capture a point on 5 sec. overtime, only to be rewarded with no extra chance.

    I should also say that I want the cart to move around the map quicker than in goldrush/badwater. I'm trying to avoid standoffs that last 5 minutes at a time like in those maps, because I want the attackers to make it at least through the first lap. The defense should be slowing the offense down as much as possible, rather than stopping them in their tracks. I'm also considering raising the speed limit of the cart, as another way to keep things moving.

    That sounds like a good HUD idea, although I know next to nothing about TF2's HUD system. I'll have to talk to someone else about what's possible. If the HUD you posted above works, the only downside I see is no indicator of how many people are pushing the cart.
     
  20. DrHaphazard

    DrHaphazard L5: Dapper Member

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    It would be nice to see scores of like 8-4 and 9-6 rather than simply a bunch of 4-4 and 4-3s. The only concern i can think of is that the major defensive class, the engi, might be screwed in a system where theres little chance to set up. Are you planning on having a set up time at the beginning of the round? That might help him a bit. I would also suggest giving him plenty of ammo boxes so that he can concentrate on getting his guns up quick instead of having to rely on building dispensers.

    Yeah theres two potential downsides, as you said you cant use valve's cart count to tell how many are on the cart and you cant tell how close or how far away the cart is from the next point.

    While its not a perfect solution, there is a solution of a kind to the cart count. In Icarus's tug-o-war pl_waste map he used an in built message system to tell how many people are on the cart. I confess I am not exactly sure how he counted how many people were on the cart but he might be so kind as to reveal his genius.

    [​IMG]

    Whatever his solution was, it was even able to tell i was a scout and gave the x2 for it. If my HUD solution from earlier actually worked, you could use the same thing, i updated my original picture to place the cart count in the middle.
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2009