Our letter to Valve, part final

Discussion in 'Site Discussion' started by Armadillo of Doom, May 8, 2008.

  1. Armadillo of Doom

    aa Armadillo of Doom Group Founder, Lover of Pie

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    Edit 2:Thanks for the suggestions guys. Our email is officially sent! In the subject line I put; 'from the mapping community'. Now we just have to wait[​IMG]

    Edit 1: Does anyone actually know the TF2 devs email? [​IMG]

    At long last, I think we're ready to be done w/ this thing :) Frankly, the reason this has taken so long is b/c I've been a lazy sob lately, busy w/ geek party stuff like every day for summer vacation, lol. Anyways, I've done my best to incorporate and otherwise revise all the suggestions in the previous thread; http://forums.tf2maps.net/showthread.php?t=1442 Credit for the revised template of my original letter goes to DrHapazard.


    Dear TF2 Design Team,

    I am writing this letter on behalf of the mapping community at TF2Maps.net. As the site name implies, the community is geared towards mapping for Team Fortress 2 and making other custom content for the game. Most of the discussions on the forum center on the usual optimization, layout and entity questions. However, there is also a recurring theme of posts trying to get around some of the limitations that seem to be built in to the TF2 mapping system. This letter and the list attached mentions some of the more common roadblocks that the TF2 mapping community runs into. We are all hoping that some of these restrictions could be looked into by Valve's TF2 team.

    Our overarching request is to introduce more flexibility into the Team Fortress 2 custom mapping process. Several of our members have been mapping since the days of Team Fortress Classic, and they have praised the TFC system in which an infinite number of game play variations could be created. We would love some of that same flexibility to be present in the current mapping system so that we can more easily create custom objectives and game play styles beyond those that are included in the game.

    Some overall examples of our requests include the addition of more working filter entities, both by class and by weapon damage type, which would allow for custom, class based objectives. Another example would be the ability to customize the item_teamflag so that variables such as carrier run speed and return timer could be tweaked to better fit into different game play styles. The most important request of all, however, deals with ability to create custom scoring structures so that the TF2 mapping community is not tied down to the current standard CTF and CP styles of play.

    We are aware that making changes like these can be very time consuming. We also know, however, that Valve has an excellent record when it comes to supporting its products and helping the modding community that works with its games. Your continued work in creating new maps, class tweaks and game play styles for Team Fortress 2 confirms that reputation.

    Finally, while this letter might appear to be one big gripe, none of us over at TF2maps.net would be mapping at all if we did not enjoy the challenges and the rewards of the mapping process. Keep making great games and keep giving us new stuff to work with!

    Thanks for your time,
    Your fans at TF2Maps.net

    List of requests follows. Because these suggestions were contributed by multiple mappers they are not unified in wording. We have, however, tried to group them by general categories to make things clearer. Thanks again!

    CTF – While the “game type” variable for the item_teamflag is an interesting concept, it is also often buggy. We feel that the inclusion of more variables for the flag entity would eliminate the need for the game type variable and would allow greater flexibility.

    1. Create a speed penalty variable so carriers can be slowed/sped up, preferably a percentage of normal speed.
    2. Currently a flag carrier can pick up an infinite number of his team’s/neutral flags, but in the process the pickup disables any previously grabbed flags. This makes multiple flag games (more than one per side) a very buggy situation and hinders the recreation of some classic TFC scenarios, such as CZ2.
    3. Allow for CTF maps to have a Setup Time and allow each team to place the intel at a certain point in the map before the match begins

    FILTERS – Adding these filters would allow for more custom objective based upon class or flag possession, making for unique game scenarios.

    4. Allow a way to filter player classes
    5. Allow a way to filter weapon damage
    6. Allow a way to filter out flag carriers
    7. filter_activator_name appears to be broken for TF2
    8. Add a way to filter by uber status
    9. Add a way to filter by cloak status

    SCORING – This is a major category. Scoring gets to the heart of how a level plays. More variety in the scoring system might allow for flag captures to count for different amounts depending on where the flag is returned. A point system based on time of possession for Capture Point games would help branch out from the current all-or-nothing winning system. These are just examples of how more variables when it comes to scoring in TF2 allows for new and interesting game play options.

    10. The game_score entity currently does not alter individual player scores, only team scores, making it difficult to correctly reward players completing custom objectives.
    11. A more direct way to manipulate team score. Having to tie a game_score entity to a trigger_multiple with a filter_activator_tfteam is awkward and leads to some unavoidable bugs.
    12. Allow for other scoring systems than CP/CTF, such as a gradual scoring system, that can be displayed in the HUD

    HUD – In combination with the Scoring system, more variables in how the HUD is set up would allow mappers to better direct players to objectives and more easily display custom scoring systems.

    13. The option for turning OFF any auto-HUD stuff that the mapper doesn’t need for his map
    14. Allow both CP HUD icons and CTF HUD icons on at the same time
    15. Custom HUD element entity. The entity lets you define where on the screen they go, and what is linked to them (state of an entity, compass position of an entity, etc) how many elements

    MODELS

    16. Scalable models. (We know this is a major request, but this ability would truly be a godsend for any game that uses the Hammer editor.)
    17. Add the ability to automatically embed custom models and textures into your map from Hammer (during the compile process, if possible)
    18. Incorporate the custom model compiler into either the XSI Mod Tool or Hammer. Having it as a separate step between the two is inconvenient and confusing for many people

    ENTITIES

    19. Ability to use fire as part of the environment, and have it react w/ the Pyro.
    20. Make func_rotating work
    21. Make func_nogrenades work (to avoid stickies in the wrong places)

    MISC – Despite being stuck in the miscellaneous category, these would also be useful additions. The class limit request is especially important since it would again allow for the mapper to better tweak his map to favor the completion of custom objectives.

    22. Ability to limit classes (or disable) and ability to change the limits as objectives are met
    23. Ability to control max spawn time, not just min spawn time. Even if min spawn time is set to 5 seconds, in game it still gets as large as 15 - 20 seconds randomly.
    24. Ability to implement a territory control overview map/window for non-TC game types.
    25. Fix for the TeamNum property of func_nobuild.
     
  2. tedrock

    tedrock L2: Junior Member

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    you STILL have:
    "List of requests follows. Because these suggestions were contributed by multiple mappers they are not unified in wording. We have, however, tried to group them by general categories to make things clearer. Thanks again!"
    in there twice. someone mentioned this in the last thread.


    also i assume you've seen http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Hammer_Feature_Requests right.
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2008
  3. woodbulb

    woodbulb L1: Registered

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    Good stuff, another thing I'd like to add about the custom intel options is that when you use...say... a mode like attack/defend for the intel, the HUD still has the default ctf scoring to 3 points display. It also shows a pointer for reds intel and blues intel even though there would only be 1 intel in the map since it's attack/defend.

    Maybe there is something I'm missing, but I couldn't find a way to fix the hud. It still works but I mean, it's obviously not right.
     
  4. TheDarkerSideofYourShadow

    TheDarkerSideofYourShadow L10: Glamorous Member

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    CTF
    Allow the hud to work with single flag maps, especially for neutral flags.
     
  5. MrAlBobo

    MrAlBobo L13: Stunning Member

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    haha, that was me in the last thread :D
     
  6. Vander

    Vander L8: Fancy Shmancy Member

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    Pack it up and send it already! Whoooh!!! :D
     
  7. Armadillo of Doom

    aa Armadillo of Doom Group Founder, Lover of Pie

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    Edit 1: Does anyone happen to have an email address for the Valve team? [​IMG]

    Doh, fixed. And I have in fact seen that, but I like ours better :D
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2008
  8. Gadget

    aa Gadget

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    well done. I would like to add to fix the "Team" property of the func_nobuild which isn't working right now.
     
  9. Armadillo of Doom

    aa Armadillo of Doom Group Founder, Lover of Pie

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    Done. I'll give this another two days, which should be enough time for me to figure out exactly what email I'm sending it to, lol
     
  10. Foreverkul

    Foreverkul L4: Comfortable Member

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    Oh yea, heres another glitch:
    The on10SecondsLeft (or whatever) and those things, they will fire during setup (so if the setup timer is at 10 it will fire the 10 seconds left thing)

    Also, Id like custom on time remaining values.
     
  11. Vilepickle

    Vilepickle L7: Fancy Member

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  12. TheDarkerSideofYourShadow

    TheDarkerSideofYourShadow L10: Glamorous Member

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    Just reiterating what I said earlier.

    CTF/HUD
    Allow neutral flags to function correctly with the CTF HUD. Either have both pointers point to the flag, or create a single pointer to target the flag. This would greatly improve single flag maps.
     
  13. Gadget

    aa Gadget

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    you could achieve that by combining the setup timer with the delay setting.
     
  14. ParkerM

    ParkerM L1: Registered

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    If you haven't sent the letter yet, I'd like to add, a reliable method of restricting classes and weapons for a particular map. Example: You die in the map, and are then respawned in another area which is melee only, whilst the rest of the surviving team is in the original area with all weapons in tact.
     
  15. Armadillo of Doom

    aa Armadillo of Doom Group Founder, Lover of Pie

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    Interesting idea ParkerM. But how would we word that? And I question if perhaps it's a bit too surreal. Misc; The ability to send outputs to players upon their death. Course, the ability to send outputs to specific players at all would be pretty badass. What does everyone else think of this?
     
  16. Hampster

    Hampster L1: Registered

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  17. Foreverkul

    Foreverkul L4: Comfortable Member

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    It doesn't make it any less a glitch.

    Also, the addition to customize what the timer says (like it says "waiting for players" or "setup")


    Heres another:
    For flag caps, you should be able to change them in hammer, but to avoid server problems you would set a priority and there is a normal and override flag capture vars on the server.
    The flag can have priority 0, in that case the normal server capture number takes priority. Then you have priority 1 which would ignore the normal server capture in favor of the custom number. Then the override server var would take priority over everything.

    Also, partially capping zones or the ability to capture things without people in an area. (Like an input for the capture area such as "SetCapTime" (set how much is capped) "AddCapTime" (add blu or red cap amount) and "ChangeCapTime" (change the total cap time needed).
    I would be nice to be able to change how fast cap points uncap (or not at all)


    Edit: I don't think there is a way to set the minimum spawn time right off the bat :\
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2008
  18. Armadillo of Doom

    aa Armadillo of Doom Group Founder, Lover of Pie

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    Thanks for the suggestions guys. Our email is officially sent! In the subject line I put; 'from the mapping community'. Now we just have to wait [​IMG]
     
  19. YM

    aa YM LVL100 YM

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    Rikes!

    [​IMG]

    Run scoobs!
     
  20. Armadillo of Doom

    aa Armadillo of Doom Group Founder, Lover of Pie

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    [​IMG]