So, Granary and Well. Like em? Hate em? Why?
Also, would providing a main artery from spawn to the center CP make it better? Worse?
Also, would providing a main artery from spawn to the center CP make it better? Worse?
ChronoTriggerFan
L420: High Member
- Feb 3, 2008
- 434
- 73
He's using a bad choice of words there, but by artery, he means path (am I right?). 5 cp maps are fun, its just the you get punished for losing the middle cp, and most of the times I play, its almost impossible to push back to the middle cp again. If the team is good at defending, the fight just stalls there because of the forward spawns.
MrAlBobo
L13: Stunning Member
- Feb 20, 2008
- 1,059
- 219
granery = hate
well = like
yeah...I mostly just hate granery because the teams need to be perfectly balanced or one team will keep dominating over and over then that team will start to leave and it kills the server, well doesn't seem to do this
well = like
yeah...I mostly just hate granery because the teams need to be perfectly balanced or one team will keep dominating over and over then that team will start to leave and it kills the server, well doesn't seem to do this
I really like linear cp maps, assuming they're done reasonably well and don't turn into stalemates all the time. Badlands, cp_well, and granary are some of valve's best work IMHO. Yea, if one team goes turtle-crazy or is just plain lousy the game can get old, but you're gonna have that no matter what the gametype is.
One of my favorite things about good linear cp maps like badlands, well, and granary is that they work well for 6v6, 8v8, and 12v12.
One of my favorite things about good linear cp maps like badlands, well, and granary is that they work well for 6v6, 8v8, and 12v12.
Yeah, that's what I meant by artery.
Also, I hate Granary with a passion. No Granary I've ever played hasn't wound up in Sudded Death
Also, I hate Granary with a passion. No Granary I've ever played hasn't wound up in Sudded Death
Granary was better before they added the startup gates, I never found the scout rushes a problem really and now its less fun because I can't sneak in as a pyro and burn the scouts. It removed my main tactic.
Even so, its a great map with some really nice choke points, due to its symetry i get bored of it much faster than other maps but Its good for a break from customs or the later fads (goldrush)
Well is just monotonous and boring It gives some good games occasionally but personally I haven't enjoyed a game on well since long before badlands was out. towards the release of the game I really enjoyed these maps, no one tried turtling and well, with the trains and water was much more fun than granary, its a bit too large though and the final point is a bit wasted - not like granary which has an excelent final point and is pure epic for the attackers (and not so bad for the defenders either...)
Badlands is good, I enjoy playing on it but the last capture point goes so incredibly quickly and its SO susceptable (sp?) to scouts that about one in five games is totally wasted due to some scout idiot. Its got a better layout than granary or well, it allows much more flanking. its much harder for engies, even at the finla point so turtling is bloody imposible and next to useless anyway.
Over all the three are pretty good maps, not as good as dustbowl, goldrush or gravel pit. 2fort and hydro are just terrible, [I actually like hydro but as no one else does chat is filled with moaning when its played and as a result its not that fun]
I love redstone, although I've not played it as much as the stock ones, If I had then I'm sure my opinion of it would be much the same as the stock ones, good but not the best. (no idea why everyone bashes it for being a granary clone.... it just isnt! (for one thing its reflective symetry NOT rotational like most other maps)
My own, station, is, in my opinion, not all that fun. Its not fantastic in visual and technical quality and the gameplay is mediocre at best.
I cant think of any more.. there must be some.
Even so, its a great map with some really nice choke points, due to its symetry i get bored of it much faster than other maps but Its good for a break from customs or the later fads (goldrush)
Well is just monotonous and boring It gives some good games occasionally but personally I haven't enjoyed a game on well since long before badlands was out. towards the release of the game I really enjoyed these maps, no one tried turtling and well, with the trains and water was much more fun than granary, its a bit too large though and the final point is a bit wasted - not like granary which has an excelent final point and is pure epic for the attackers (and not so bad for the defenders either...)
Badlands is good, I enjoy playing on it but the last capture point goes so incredibly quickly and its SO susceptable (sp?) to scouts that about one in five games is totally wasted due to some scout idiot. Its got a better layout than granary or well, it allows much more flanking. its much harder for engies, even at the finla point so turtling is bloody imposible and next to useless anyway.
Over all the three are pretty good maps, not as good as dustbowl, goldrush or gravel pit. 2fort and hydro are just terrible, [I actually like hydro but as no one else does chat is filled with moaning when its played and as a result its not that fun]
I love redstone, although I've not played it as much as the stock ones, If I had then I'm sure my opinion of it would be much the same as the stock ones, good but not the best. (no idea why everyone bashes it for being a granary clone.... it just isnt! (for one thing its reflective symetry NOT rotational like most other maps)
My own, station, is, in my opinion, not all that fun. Its not fantastic in visual and technical quality and the gameplay is mediocre at best.
I cant think of any more.. there must be some.
Snipergen
L13: Stunning Member
- Nov 16, 2007
- 1,051
- 150
I hate well and granary. Both. I just hate them because they are too big, I run more than shooting stuff, it has a boring layout, too open, not well thought of other classes (oh it has sniper windows but its useless) etc;...
And boring because it's symmetrical. Gimme dustbowl plz
I instantly disconnect when a server switches to granary or well
And boring because it's symmetrical. Gimme dustbowl plz
I instantly disconnect when a server switches to granary or well
AWESOME-O
L10: Glamorous Member
- Mar 20, 2008
- 779
- 132
Yay than there are now 2 ppl who likes hydro
For some reason i like the ctf well, but also, ctf well gets way to easy rushed by scouts, great job valve, you added a map to tf2 that no one plays
I dislike both. I hate Granary. Have never played Badlands. There's just never that much fun about it. Unlike every other map type, there is way to logically set up offense and defense. In 2fort, Dustbowl, Goldrush, everyone just falls into place. In 5 point CP maps, everyone is just randomly going in and trying to do their own thing...
Well is much better than Granary, but frankly, both suck.
Well is much better than Granary, but frankly, both suck.
- Feb 26, 2008
- 1,626
- 1,325
I hate them both.
However, it'd be very very easy to fix them.
As of now they are symmetrical bilaterally in both directions. The Red side and the blue side being symmetrical is fine with me. However, no map should provide TWO ENTRANCES at every single juncture. To me, both maps are just "rooms" connected by two entrances.
If you cut the maps in half bilaterally, it would redirect the player traffic, clean up the gameplay, and force players to be in conflict constantly. Sure it would need tweaking but this is the direction they both need to go in
However, it'd be very very easy to fix them.
As of now they are symmetrical bilaterally in both directions. The Red side and the blue side being symmetrical is fine with me. However, no map should provide TWO ENTRANCES at every single juncture. To me, both maps are just "rooms" connected by two entrances.
If you cut the maps in half bilaterally, it would redirect the player traffic, clean up the gameplay, and force players to be in conflict constantly. Sure it would need tweaking but this is the direction they both need to go in
No wonder you don't like them if everyone is randomly doing their own thing.......What servers do you play on?
Definatly best to play these maps on a server where most of the people playing are regulars.
Sacrifist
L3: Member
- Nov 21, 2007
- 130
- 7
I think Granary and Well would be much better if Valve would of added the Green and Yellow teams and made them both 4 team. Would of added a whole new level to both maps as now they are really boring. They both fall into the category of a player being on a team that steam rolls the other or the player being on the team that gets steam rolled. Not enough choke points for either map. And 5 pt cp maps thrive with choke points.
This is where I stopped reading.
Granary gives the same experience every time, it gets boring. It's too linear in the sense that it provides no real vertical combat. Each area has almost the exact dimensions; too small for snipers, too large for pyro's. Sentries are ok but they get swamped because of the large open doorways and such. I've never really played Granary with a team that cooperates. I never really see medics and i'm normally the only engi. As someone mentioned, one team dominates the game and the other leaves the server.
Well Suffers similarly from the dimensions of the area's. Although large enough for snipers and good floor cover for pyro's, the large spaces mean that most people on assualt duty end up using their secondary weapons to agitate people from a distance. The only real ambushes happen at the train gates. Then it's normally a stalemate outside the front doors of a base for a good 10 minutes untill the defender's get bored and slack and give up the last point because they don't really care anymore.
CP style maps would probably benefit from a smaller scale and more 'jagged' routes and interesting layouts and inner building constructions that provide vertical combat. Like maybe an L shaped map. I like well ctf though, but i rarely see it, you need a large group really to play Well. Granary could probably do with longer cap times on base cp's and a shorter cap time on the mid section. Once the second cp goes the last goes within atleast 10 seconds too.
Well Suffers similarly from the dimensions of the area's. Although large enough for snipers and good floor cover for pyro's, the large spaces mean that most people on assualt duty end up using their secondary weapons to agitate people from a distance. The only real ambushes happen at the train gates. Then it's normally a stalemate outside the front doors of a base for a good 10 minutes untill the defender's get bored and slack and give up the last point because they don't really care anymore.
CP style maps would probably benefit from a smaller scale and more 'jagged' routes and interesting layouts and inner building constructions that provide vertical combat. Like maybe an L shaped map. I like well ctf though, but i rarely see it, you need a large group really to play Well. Granary could probably do with longer cap times on base cp's and a shorter cap time on the mid section. Once the second cp goes the last goes within atleast 10 seconds too.
Hawk
L7: Fancy Member
- Dec 3, 2007
- 419
- 213
I don't really enjoy the bidirectional CP maps. They feel like they go on forever. And when you're starting to get tired of the map, somebody captures a point and time just gets added to it. That's why I like the one-way CP maps like Dustbowl and Goldrush. They are finite in length and the map only needs to go on as long as things are happening.