Microcontest #22: Solids

14bit

14bit

L14: Bit Member
aa
Oct 5, 2014
661
2,121
Wow, two microcontests in a row we've beaten the record for most entries. The last one got 33, but this time we got a whopping 37 entries, and it took almost 12 hours to play them all (even when we only played each one for two rounds/ten minutes, whichever came last)! I've got some fun bonus stats for you all at the end, but first the main event: feedback!

@B!scuit
Solids count: 1
Very creative, and congrats on being the only 1-solid entry! There's a few obvious issues here that I think you can solve to make this a lot more fun. First, more spawn points. Those won't add more solids. Next, the pit is an issue; lots of rounds turned into fighting in the pit which while interesting wasn't very fun. I'd raise the cordon so that you can jump back onto the main platform at the ends to get rid of the issue while keeping it one solid. Finally, Demos throwing pipes before the round starts is an issue, but if you use prop_dynamics as clipping (set to a very short render distance and with the parentname sawmovelinear01 so stickies won't stick) you should be able to block them and disable the prop and its collisions to effectively create a wall before the round begins without adding any solids.

@leezo
Solids count: 99
I was going to say that the point is a bit too safe with the cutout and pipe there and that I'd move it, but it seems you've done that already judging by some screenshots you posted. I love all the jump pads and how they let you recover sometimes; it's good fun and works well with the little goblins you turn everyone into. Not sold on the water though, it doesn't seem to add much, but also the map might feel a bit empty without it. I'm unsure why you've got health and ammo in the map seeing that it doesn't seem you can die to anything other than the deathpit. The knockback doesn't feel high enough, but I don't know if you can change that. The solids count seems a bit high for how simple it is, but I guess the triggers probably add up for all the jump pads and effects going on. Pretty fun!

@Buic
Solids count: 43
This is really funny; the Horseless Headless Horseman arriving the first time was incredible to watch the reaction to. I was not expecting this to work at all but was pleasantly surprised. The layout is surprisingly easy to learn in the dark; looking at it now in fullbright it's pretty much how I thought it looked. I think it's because it was so simple and you can sort of see down the longer hallways through the fog, which is a nice touch and helps with navigation. After a bit all the rounds feel the same though, it might be worth experimenting with a bit of height variation or scaling it up to make it a bit less cramped.

@Tiftid
Solids count: 198
Interesting mode idea (I've been told you are not the first, but this is the first of this mode I've personally played), but I don't think this layout works for this at all. The control point is very hard to find, and the water isn't very fun. Having no indication that you don't drown is a bad move; it just confused everyone and people kept retreating to the surface to breathe. Having some objectives in the water is a neat idea to explore, but having all of them in it makes it grating. It's only now that I'm flying around after the test that I actually have figured out where the intel rooms are in relation to the land above the water; the whole test I assumed they were under the spawns. Their location makes sense in theory, but being underwater makes it way too hard to engage with them. 90% of the fighting took place above the point, instead of on it like in KotH or at the intel like in CTF, so it's just kind of the worst of both modes right now. Better signage would help, but I think the routing and placement of objectives needs to be better to actually fix it.

@Hadull
Solids count: 151
How this played confused me, and I wish we had more rounds on it. The first choke seems like it's impossible, but then we did it so I have no idea if it was teams, the specific engineers we had, or the map itself. I'm leaning towards it being the map, what with the two full ammo packs in easy-to-defend cubbies right at the hardest choke. Even just removing those or making them smaller would probably make this play way better instantly. Overall it feels like there's too many nooks and blind corners they have to get around in order to make progress as an attacker. Reduce all the full ammo packs and give final a flank and I think this might be something neat!

@Will Alfred
Solids count: 84
It works, and it's funny to watch a flock of Heavies descend on a lone player, but I'm not a fan of Heavy-only gameplay so take this all with a grain of salt. There's a nice variety of routes, though it seems quite empty and lacking in small cover and things to play around. Maybe make it slightly smaller, but not by much? Some people complained about the long side routes, but I think they're fine and do a nice job of splitting teams up naturally. The boost pad triggers should probably be made smaller or marked on the ground; there was a few times when it seemed I was closer but someone else picked it up first.

@DrSquishy
Solids count: 83
This hurts my head and my framerate, well done. Too many jumps are required to navigate, it's really annoying; I'd have rotated some of the barrels to make some ramps. There wasn't really much meaningful gameplay; it mostly disolved into spawncamping and fights over sightlines and unneccessarily large connectors. For all the props in the map there's very usful little cover, too. It's very hard to tell where the capture zone trigger is on final, maybe change the skin on the barrel props in the zone so you can tell where it is? It's funny, but too large, too open, and runs too badly to be actually fun to play. Replacing the one really, really big barrel wall with a brush for vis would help tremendously.

@Phe
Solids count: 94
One of the better SD layouts I've seen tested here, well done! The dropsite is really easy to lock down, that or we had incredible engineers. Removing the one corner they were hiding in would probably improve the play of the map a lot. It maybe too easy to get to the enemy spawn exits; it seemed like I ended up there fighting a decent amount. It looks nice, the HL voice lines are funny, and it plays pretty well; I don't have much more to say. Well done!

@FloofCollie
Solids count: 99
I really like this, impressive! The cows in spawn are funny; how'd you get them to wander around like that? Point A fell very quickly both rounds, I think it might need some work to make it a bit more holdable by Red. The B lobby needs either a bigger doorway or another entrance, but you know that from the test already. I like the tunnel at last, it's one of the most interesting final point ideas I've seen in years, no joke. Incredibly impressive for just 99 solids, stellar work! I hope you continue this one, I'd love to see where it goes.

@SuperLuxDeluxe
Solids count: 98
Very interesting, and impressive for just 98 solids! I've never seen a PLR map where the tracks never cross that plays as well as this one, and I think it's because of the mid. The big choke at mid leads to a kind of neat back and forth where only one team pushes at a time, which is kind of fun. The finals are really interesting as well being so enclosed but still so open. I wish there was a little bit of a rollback on the end so you can save it, but you might not need it. Great use of props throughout the map, too!

@Thetriztheexistentialneko
Solids count: 98
Very neat, shame about the fake skybox not packing! First is very, very Blu-sided; they've got highground after the opening, and a massive one-way flank with a full ammo. Because of this, Red doesn't really have a place to hold. They can't do it in front of the point because of the routeing Blu has, can't do it on the point because it's so dangerous, and can't do it behind since it's one choke far removed from the point itself. Final is chokey, but not really in an interesting way? I don't know how else to describe it. The fight happens over a single route instead of around the point, which is a valid way to design a final but not my personal preference. We may have had unbalanced teams, since the same one won on both attack and defense.

@Le Codex
Solids count: 30
Better than expected, though I wish it was bigger since teams score so fast. Sad you can't add speedboosts with the flying. I never saw the snitch until feedback round; I guess the point is that it's supposed to be hard to see but I think it might be too hard right now. I'd love to see the ball dropper box, having it spawn out of nowhere makes it hard to tell where the opening fight will be. That may also be intentional, though. There was a recurring issue of players accidentally locking onto teammates when throwing for the goal, and you might be able to fix this by adding a run-in goal at the back of the field? Might cause more issues than it solves, but it might be worth trying.

@Mathtriqueur
Solids count: 98
This is a bit of a mess, unfortunately. It should probably be only 2 points at this scale; doing a full four points just gives Blu so much time to cap final since they roll the first three. Final is a nightmare to push, and isn't very interesting. The flank took me a long time to find as an attacker; it's unclear there even is one due to how attackers approach the whole area. Red gets spec cameras into the rooms where Blu has to set up for pushes, which makes planning attacks very difficult and gives them an unfair advantage. Teams were unbalanced, but I'm not sure it would play well even if they were due to it being so cramped. I'd scale it up a bit, make the routes more distinct and obvious, and remove two of the points.

@Tumby
Solids count: 99
I like this a lot, feels like a mashup of Hightower and Pipeline in a good way. The area around the first rollback is very hard to push, but I think a lot of it would be fixed if you just removed that spawn exit or modified it a bit to not be right next to the rollback. Maybe even let enemy players into that courtyard in the back? With more solids to build proper spawns I think this would be great fun. Incredible use of the 99 solids, well done!

@Squaggies
Solids count: 86
Fun to grapple around, not sure what else to say. In this fast of a mode, the point doesn't come into play much, which feels like a shame to me. It might be worth going back to 2cp arena if you're going to use grapples in arena in order to help focus the action more; without movement restrictions combat becomes scattered and unfocused to my eyes. At the moment it seems the play is to just stay on your own side and let the enemies come to you; it's hard to flank when flanking makes loud noises and shows exactly where you are flying to.

@pont
Solids count: 0
This surprisingly work quiet well? Congrats on being the only 0-solids entry! That being said, this would look a lot nicer with better lighting brought about by having a solid or two. Very creative use of props, especially the slow-motion payload explosion. I like the layout of the highground side, but the lowground side doesn't do it for me. I genuinely couldn't tell you why, but I did not enjoy fights in that area, despite most of the fights I was in taking place in that area. I have only now noticed the fire-breathing train; I only saw the non-fire-breathing one during the test. Funny! I am unsure why there is a giant sign spelling out the scientific name for fireflies/lightning bugs.

@zythe_
Solids count: 197
Looks great! A bit small, though, which leads to a lack of variety in options for pushes. What few options are there work well enough though. I like the healthpack placements! They're in useful spots, but not too numerous. Teams started to try and camp in their spawns after a while, so maybe a third spawn exit could help with encouraging players to leave/allowing attackers to enter and flush them out? The use of the height of mid to block sightlines is clever, well done.

@norfolk
Solids count: 60
Pretty nice! Some people said it's better than Standin, but I think you can pull some more inspiration from it. Specifically, I think this could have used another courtyard where the spawns are currently so that the side points are a bit easier to defend by holding forward of the points instead of right on them. I don't care for B at all; it's too hard to get up onto and becomes too much of a focal point for the fights. Some people might prefer this, since the rounds almost always revolve around who wins in in the opening, but to me it's annoying. I just wish there was a better way to get up to the top to make non-jumping classes viable at B. Impressively low solids count for the amount of gameplay space going on, well done!

@14bit
Solids count: 96
I am torn on this. It was fun, but did not play at all how I expected, which is frustrating. The whole map was designed around trying to make an interesting fight happen at A, and that fight/hold does not happen in reality. It seems defenders preferred to try and hold the doomed opening area rather than set up at the point, and I'll have to figure out how to deal with that if I test this again. Do I make that opening hold stronger? Do I discourage it more? Much to think about. I have ideas. B is fun but hard, not entirely sure what to do with it. It splits teams up a lot, but it's kind of fun. I'd be interested in hearing what people thought does and doesn't work about it.

@IAmSixSyllables BR
Solids count: 147
I don't have much to say on this one, it's a pretty standard tiny Arena map. Works well, though nothing terribly notable about the layout. I'd change the dropdowns into the point areas into ramps/slopes so there's another way to safely approach the point without having to commit to the dropdown. I'd also look into widening the taller of the staircase routes onto the point, the fully enclosed ones. Maybe it needs another route overall? But the map already pretty much works, so I don't know. Not bad!

@uwil
Solids count: 93/134
This is pretty rough, if I'm being honest. There's a lot of small issues that add up that make it hard to play, like the spawns being so tiny, displacements that look like you should be able to walk up but can't, no visualization for the cart path, and the cart floating sometimes. The layout itself doesn't seem to bad up to B, but it's hard to focus on with the other issues. Final is... rough. Having the cart cross directly in front of Red's only spawn exit led to spawncamping and a generally bad time for defenders. The two-stage version looks to be more interesting, shame it wasn't working.

@staryoshi06
Solids count: 31
Neat idea for a theme, I don't think I've seen it before! I think it's way too big though. The sightlines are insane, and combat happens at way further distances than is usual for Team Fortress 2. I'd almost cut it in half and test again to check if that scale is better. The healthpack on a rope over the pit is really funny. Neat strategy to reduce solids count, well done!

@Emil_Rusboi & Nat-Tea
Solids count: 96
There's some neat ideas in here, and a good show of working around the solids limit. I think first is too large, scale-wise. The routes are nice, but everything is just too big. Second is too high off the ground compared to the seemingly "main" route. Players attackers are directed to the big B door, but that's the hardest route to attack with by a lot, which feels like a mistake. Additionally, the routes into B are very split making it hard to rotate as attackers, forcing you to fully commit to one or the other. It sort of works but not really? It just ends up feeling strange. B is definitely the weaker of the points, and I'm not really sure what you could do to keep the same idea while making it feel better. Maybe ditch the spiral pipe stairs and allow attackers to get up to the point using the current lowground route without having to pass the enemy spawn?

@penguinlazerz
Solids count: 132
Very cool idea to make a whole map out of modular hexagons to save solids, but I think you overscaled it in the process. It's too large and too open, without enough small cover. You need small cover as well as big cover in a map to give people places to fight around. At the moment it's just Sightline Dodging: The Map. Some more props or brushwork cover around the point would immediately make this a lot more fun. I love the jumppads! Very interesting idea, but the layout is just lacking.

@Kube
Solids count: 69
Extremely interesting idea, but this layout does not do it any favors, and the spawn situation just... doesn't work. But I think you probably know that already from the test and all the spawncamping going on. Asymmetric Arena could be an interesting concept, but I don't think that was the intention. Sans the spawn, I think the rest of this layout might work? Blu's spawn should probably be a little farther back and have a way to get back in after leaving, and it might be worth giving Red an setup time. Great use of the solids limit too; 69, nice.

@Aulli
Solids count: 192
Incredibly impressive, wild that you've gotten this to work and within the solids limit no less! I'm not well-versed in Prop Hunt, but the layout seems nice with lots of places to hide. There's some logic issues, and it's Red-sided at the moment, but I think you've already figured that out from the test. I like the idea of wrong guesses having a health penalty. I wish Blu could move after the round starts, so they can run if they are the last one and there's only a few Red players left (if you do the health penalty thing), but that might not be what you're going for.

@superkowboj1
Solids count: 190
Very pretty, great use of the textures to make up for the low solids count, feels like a nice little village! Quite fun too, one of the best Medieval maps I've played for a microcontest. My biggest gripe is not being able to get back into spawn after leaving it. You can as Scout, but all other classes can't which makes it hard to push out if you are getting camped since you can't refill health. I like the water, though I wish it was deep enough to swim in. The healthpack in the center is duplicated; there are two on top of each other! A few torches with trigger_ignite_arrows would not go amiss. Very neat map!

@Osac
Solids count: 99
Neat concept, I hope it gets explored more beyond this microcontest! I think it may be overscaled, though the general layout seems mostly fine. My biggest layout gripe is that B is hard to find as an attacker, and even harder to reach. You have to rotate around the entire building to reach it. I know there's a second floor entrance sort of near the spawn, but it still requires you to walk a long ways once you're inside.

@Whomobile
Solids count: 47
Very funny, but very annoying very fast. It seems like you underestimated how often people die in an average TF2 match! Maybe make the riff play every time a healthpack is picked up, or every time the point is capped instead? Something far less frequent than player deaths. That or lean into it and have one team play the Bad to the Bone riff and the other the first four notes of Megalovania instead to add variety. Not much of an actual layout going on; the platforms don't give enough space for Team Fortress 2 to happen in a traditional sense. More cover, more solid ground, and places to set up for pushes and holds would be appreciated if you're looking to make it play like a more traditional map. Even if you would rather lean into the goofy and keep it as a joke, having so many required jumps makes some classes like Heavy very difficult and I'd look into reducing those.

@Jameson
Solids count: 196
Visually this is nice, but some bits don't work, particularly final. I like A, it's got some nice spaces and variety; it's open but not overscaled. Final is where most of the issues are; you have to aggressively spawncamp to capture, and no teams managed it. There's already spawn lockers right next to the point, it doesn't need a full ammo too! While the obvious solution is to move the point farther from Red spawn, or move Red's spawn farther from the point, you might just be able to rotate the building on the point so that the opening faces Blu and Red has to walk around it to defend; Junction's final point pretty much does that and it kind of works.

@Mercia
Solids count: 88
I generally like CTF with easily accessible flags, but it's really hard to cross mid here. There's the tunnel, yes, but it's not a great option since it's lowground and there's no cover at the exits so you just end up in the same space as if you pushed above. Mid is the weak point here by a long shot; there's just too much open space so combat happens at longer than usual distances. Just a few more big rocks or buildings would help a lot. The intel "room" has a good mix of being enclosed and open, which is fun. Pretty alright overall!

@B!scuit
Solids count: 99
I like the geo here, I can feel the Titanfall influence, but it doesn't play well. In general, it's way too wide making it undefendable; there's no clear chokes. Multiple times I just walked down the center of the map to the point and capped, wining the round on my own. I'm genuinely not sure how I wasn't stopped. That Red spawn visualizer is way too close to the point too; so much gameplay is locked behind it. Also, on the far right (looking at the point from Blu spawn) you can't even see the visualizer since the fade distance is based on the origin of the entity and it's too far. I'm sure you could use this geometry for something, but it'll need a lot of retooling.

@Duck Lemon
Solids count: 116
The jump pads are fun, though the layout itself is a bit simple and lacking cover around the point. I do like how the jump pads allow teams to quickly rotate to the other side so you don't get the issue of teams holding in their own base until the point opens. The pit is kind of neat, the fact that it's not a deathpit I mean, but it's not used much since it reads as one. If you made it less deep and added routes into it that didn't involve falling and taking damage it would probably be used more in interesting ways. Some more subtle height variation around the map would help it feel less flat and open.

@Paper Shadow
Solids count: 99
Logic borked, all the points start unlocked! Kind of neat! Maybe a bit large, but the grapples help. I never know how to give feedback when they are involved since they so radically change how the game works. I think it probably needs more cover in the actual gameplay spaces, i.e. the point buildings themselves. There's no real way to build chokes into this open of a layout when everyone has so much movement, so you'll need to make the points themselves a lot more interesting to fight in, and maybe crank up the capture times so you really have to decisively win a point. At the moment they are just empty rooms which isn't too much fun. I like the upside-down tower at the bottom, I didn't notice it until now while writing feedback!

@radarhead
Solids count: 171
Quite large with not much variation or cover; it feels like at this scale there should be two points here instead of just one. Under or around the elevated shipping containers, perhaps? It feels overscaled because of the dead space, and it might feel better with more cover around, or it might actually be overscaled. The pit at final is... weird. It's hard to get back up after falling down, but that seems intentional to push attackers to take the longer route. Maybe if you add a second point, the shorter route could open after A is capped as a shortcut and provide more options for getting out of the pit to make attacking from that direction easier? Great use of the Foundry mid prop!

@Sarexicus
Solids count: 88
Impressive! I love the detail you've managed to pack into this. Way too hard to get on the point. I'd look into building some logic that makes it work more like KotH where you have to get enemies off the point before you can gain points, so that you can block if you manage to make it onto the point so there's some actual fighting. Speaking of getting onto the point, it's way, way to hard to do so right now, and the platform is very small once you do get there. I'd make it bigger, remove the sides so more bumpercart action can happen, and make it easier to reach.

@Kiglirs
Solids count: 167
I struggle to give feedback on Medieval maps, so apologies in advance for how little I'll be able to give. The layout works, it seems scaled fine for Medieval. The first point is weird in a way I can't quite place? Might be the ramp in the cave not seeing much use in my memories. The pit at final is fun. I'd make the capture zones/points larger, since they got a bit crowded.

Here's the mode breakdown:
Code: 
KotH        4
Arena       11
RD          1
A/D         9
SD          1
PLR         2
PASS Time   1
PL          3
DOM         1
Mystery     1
ML          1
CTF         1
CP          1

Sub-modes:
   Medieval    5
   Grapple     2
   Multistage  0/1
   Bumpercart  1

And now the fun bonus stats:
Mean number of solids: 103.62162162162

Median number of solids: 98
plr_lux_mc22_a1​
cp_thetriz_mc22_a1​
pl_mathtriqueur_mc22_a3​

Mode number of solids: 99
arena_leezo_mc22​
cp_floof_mc22_a2​
plr_tumby_mc22_a1a​
arena_besieged_mc22_a1​
cp_bikkie_mc22_a1​
cp_papershadow_mc22_a1​

Minimum number of solids: 0
arena_pont_mc22_a1​

Maximum number of solids: 198
thief_tiftid_mc22_a1​

Sum of total solids: 3834

Great work everyone, see you in microcontest 23!
 
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