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  1. FishyUberMuffin

    aa FishyUberMuffin The Uber Mapper

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    127
  2. Heroriks

    Heroriks L2: Junior Member

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  3. FishyUberMuffin

    aa FishyUberMuffin The Uber Mapper

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    Nothing is over overscaled because you are in a volcano

    Edit: You should feel small
     
  4. Crowbar

    aa Crowbar perfektoberfest

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    You should also feel secure from snipers in some places.
     
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  5. FishyUberMuffin

    aa FishyUberMuffin The Uber Mapper

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    There is sniper cover. Its the fences from the control point and the entrance of mid.
     
  6. Heroriks

    Heroriks L2: Junior Member

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    what about every other place in the map?
     
  7. FishyUberMuffin

    aa FishyUberMuffin The Uber Mapper

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    Those other places in the map. Are meant to be flank rousts and snipers are drawn to mid and not the other places. You should not see snipers in the other places.
     
  8. Heroriks

    Heroriks L2: Junior Member

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    Big sightlines atract snipers btw the map is sniper heaven
     
  9. FishyUberMuffin

    aa FishyUberMuffin The Uber Mapper

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    but only for mid. The other places are to enclose. Snipers dont want to deal with sollys and demos.
     
  10. Glubbable

    Glubbable L1: Registered

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    Your side routes that are in-doors have massive sight lines, if you actually looked at the images that were posted here by Heroriks.

    Like, seriously, everywhere you go in the map, there's a massive sight line for a Sniper.
     
  11. FishyUberMuffin

    aa FishyUberMuffin The Uber Mapper

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    Right outside of spawn does not have a massive sight line due to walls that have the signs and the walls around the control point. That gives cover within the main part of the map.
     
  12. Heroriks

    Heroriks L2: Junior Member

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    Your map has serius sightline issues. Any half decent sniper would abuse the hell out of them to the point the enemy team would want to ragequit. And any half decent sniper can avoid enemy sollies, demos & scouts
     
  13. Glubbable

    Glubbable L1: Registered

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    Mid is 90% sight lines, 10% pray the sniper doesn't guess which cover your behind and pops you when you peak.
     
  14. FishyUberMuffin

    aa FishyUberMuffin The Uber Mapper

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  15. FishyUberMuffin

    aa FishyUberMuffin The Uber Mapper

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    Now sniper is not overpowered within this new version.
     
  16. Heroriks

    Heroriks L2: Junior Member

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  17. Viperi

    aa Viperi not actually a snek

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    Usually when designing a layout, you don't want to rely on fences for blocking vision since their effect is null once you get on them and they force grounded players to use open paths.
     
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  18. Flipy

    aa Flipy I like foxes

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    Edit: I was overly harsh with some of my wording at first, this was done very late at night so I apologize for that. I tried to tone it down and elaborate on things more

    This isnt an excuse for poor gameplay and scale issues. You know another map that takes place in a volcano and feels great? arena_volcano
    Overscaling your map just poops on any fun that can be had by it as it can cause
    • optimization issues
      • speaks for itself
    • Long walk times
      • Reliance on fast classes or jumping classes
      • Heavies arent going to want to walk all the way up to mid and such through these long flank routes, especially given how prone they will be to snipers
      • Nobody is going to use the long route in an overscaled map when a shorter route is 2x as quick
      • upload_2017-9-12_0-18-22.png
      • to get up to here you have to take strangely long route, the route from spawn is incredibly questionanle
      • 24~ seconds to get up to this pathway. 24~ seconds.
      • and for what? Nothing. This flank servers next to no purpose. You cannot get to point quickly after this or to any normal gameplay spaces, unless you are a demoman or soldier. Not a jumping class? Enjoy your long walk.
    • sight-line issues
      • upload_2017-9-12_0-2-56.png upload_2017-9-12_0-3-50.png
      • yes it is possible to get up onto this fence without cheating, and while im obviously exposed, I can still abuse this for some cheesey and unfair kills as sniper
    • Often lazy and blocky design
      • the map feels like a guant box that had platforms hap hazardly added to it
      • When designing layouts think more about the gameplay spaces dynamically, and work the borders around those dynamic spaces.
      • This is an example of when it feels like you just made a room and dropped some random blockers in it.
      • upload_2017-9-12_0-2-29.png
    Some other issues that need to be pointed out but arent entirwly part of the overscaling issue
    upload_2017-9-12_0-22-36.png
    If I am not a jumping class, I cannot get to this healthkit. And for a small healthkit? Its not worth it
    upload_2017-9-12_0-23-15.png
    You are rushing your geometry, and it leads to stuff like this. Seriously it takes a couple of extra seconds to make sure everything fits flush, this is lazy and sad.
    upload_2017-9-12_0-24-25.png
    upload_2017-9-12_0-25-23.png
    On that note, your map has things being different sizes. That spot where I was standing on the fence on red side? You cant do that on blue side because of this enlarged gap. This is an objective imbalance

    upload_2017-9-12_0-25-48.png
    Lastly, these are questionable. They are really difficult and un fun to try and climb as any non jumping class. You have to make a corner jump around props with wonky collission over lava, for a small health kit. Its not worth the risk and effort
    upload_2017-9-12_0-26-46.png
    These pillars arent even the same for each side, Blue dontt have a path around to climb up, but instead have to make a damn precise jump and abuse the physics engine just to get this kit. Once again, not worth the risk.

    The more I look at this map, the more it feels completely rushed and honestly, thoughtless. It feels like you are just putting in cover and routes just to have them without stopping and considering how a random player is going to perceive and use these areas. You need to forecast in yout mind where battles are going to be taking place, and then tuning your other routes to compliment those forecasts. Your mid feels completely seperate to any of the flanks and with its open nature I can forecast that players will want to avoid it unless they need to use it. So where would players go to circumvent that? Flanks. However, players wont want to use your flanks because of how much time it takes, and the risk they take being open to enemy snipers. Problematically, none of the flanks give access to the main point, and with how overscaled they are, lack any real reason to go and use them.
     
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    Last edited: Sep 12, 2017
  19. OctoBlitz

    OctoBlitz L4: Comfortable Member

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    You weren't being harsh to him, you gave the feedback properly.

    However much we tell you, fishy, you seem to not listen when we say that you need to learn to scale your map, working on it is one thing, playing it is another, to really get a sense of scale on your map you need to use more playermodels and not limit yourself to your theme!

    That kind of stuff ruins a map, and just placing a few bits of cover in a long sightline that couldnt be fixed unless you were to remake the entire passage way is never a good thing.

    Hopefully you can take this advice and use it to better your maps in the future.
     
  20. FishyUberMuffin

    aa FishyUberMuffin The Uber Mapper

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    Snipers needs somewhere to snipe. I can't completely shutdown all snipers.
     
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