Laguna

Discussion in 'Map Factory' started by H-land, Aug 19, 2009.

  1. H-land

    aa H-land

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    CP Laguna
    A five point symmetrical CP map by H-land

    For well over half a year, I've been working on a map with the central control point underwater, just because I hadn't seen it done before and wanted to see how it would work. This map has come to be known as Laguna, and this current incarnation (as the map has been restarted completely more than once) has been in the works for at least eight months, during which it it has made few public appearances, yet received an obscenely large number of comments regarding the fact that it's hard to play Pyro underwater.

    Laguna is a map set, not in a tropical lagoon, but on a temperate yet marshy peninsula on which a medium sized shipyard under the management of the BLU team and a fiscally unrealistic trainyard controlled by RED exist in close proximity, separated by an unrealistically small drydock and two warehouses. To defeat the other team, either RED or BLU must first capture a control point under the water in the drydock before capturing a control point within the other team's warehouse and finally the transportation hub of the opposing team.

    Suggestions are appreciated when they're not "use less water; it unbalances pyro".
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2014
  2. nik

    nik L12: Fabulous Member

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    wow

    this looks great

    The CP underwater might be strange because you would lose health while capturing it, but then again it could be really interesting

    nice work though
     
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  3. The_Ulf

    The_Ulf L6: Sharp Member

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    Oh shoot - there goes the originality on the arena map I was working on that had the cp in ankle deep water... and its impressiveness. :p

    Seriously tho, I wouldn't worry about breaking the pyro - they have shotguns if they're not silly (admittedly, I am silly and only use the flaming tampon cannon) and it looks like you've given them plenty to do elsewhere.

    Lighting is moodily dark, but it looks like you've properly illuminated what would be the primary playable area, so it should be okay - just make sure there's no where a crafty Australian or shifty Frenchman can get to and be fully shadowed. :D
     
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  4. Peterm

    Peterm Banned

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    amazing well detailed and lightings good, as others have said interesting cp underwater, good name only thing im not sure about is in pic 3 is that rock ledge completely flat???

    My map [ame="http://forums.tf2maps.net/showthread.php?t=8920"]koth_blackport b8 (soon)[/ame] check it out
     
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    Last edited: Aug 19, 2009
  5. santoriin

    santoriin L1: Registered

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    while i love the atmosphere i would attempt to maybe play with the levels of grayness that occur where your buildings meet the skybox horizon. It washes together is is very gray.

    underwater cp is neat, though the space is really big, i would suggest maybe 2ish piles (symmetrically) of either crap stacked up in the pool, or crap floating in the pool to be used as islands. If placed right they could even be stepping stones for a fan scout/soldier/demo or maybe even reg. scout to jump past the point entirely to flank from, or rocketjump to etc. Neat idea though.
     
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  6. FlavorRage

    FlavorRage L4: Comfortable Member

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    Finally! A use for my aqua-neering skills!
     
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  7. Omnomnick

    Omnomnick L6: Sharp Member

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    Wow, this map looks great - I love the lighting style as well as the different areas the control points are situated in, the ordinary styled control point area, the underwater control point and that CP surrounded by a pit. This should give for some pretty cool results. Good luck! :D
     
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  8. Wegason

    Wegason L4: Comfortable Member

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    Some comments from todays playtest.

    1. Is there only one exit from spawn? With the last control point right next to it? I think this gives rise to spawn camping and there is a need for at least two exits from the spawn.

    2. I found it very difficult to find the 2nd/4th control points.

    3. When you go up from spawn there are those metal barriers in your way, I can sneak round the side of one I'm not sure I should be able to.

    4. Beyond them is the water drop, when you drop in it is very dark, I think more lighting is needed around there and in a fair few other places as well.



    I liked the innovation in the middle control point and I love the setting and scenery, just needs some amendments I feel.
     
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  9. ChickenLover

    ChickenLover L2: Junior Member

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    Waaay too dark. I had trouble getting out of spawn at first because I couldn't see where I was. I even cranked up my brightness and I still had trouble seeing where I was. Eventually I was moving around the level just by memory because I knew a door was ahead, not because I could see it. I spent most of my time that I could underwater in the center area because it was the only place I could really see well as it was brighter than the surface.

    I was also having the fps problems on the level which really shouldn't be happening. I run an E8400 @ 3.6ghz and crossfire 4870's. If I'm getting fps drops I can't imagine how people with lesser hardware were feeling. You probably have not optimized the level yet, but I'd suggest you do for the next release. It is much easier to test when you can move freely.

    The only other thing I can think of is that I kept on trying to do a scout double jump from the center to the edges of the water area and finding I was just short of making it. I'd pull those edges in a bit more or make the center area a little bigger so the jump can be made. Scouts will love you for it.
     
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  10. Bslashingu

    Bslashingu L2: Junior Member

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    That last point is a real choke, pushing through it can be a real pain. Also, there seems to be an invisible wall in the doorway of the building next to the final capture point, which is only there sometimes. The FPS drops were a huge issue, which should get addressed. And please do something about that ladder in the forward spawn room, it really doesn't fit TF2, and you never expect it, I can imagine people will sit there at the bottom of the spawn wondering where to go.

    The whole map had a kind of "motel at night" feel to it, which I thought was pretty cool. The idea of the center control point being underwater was pretty awesome, too. The lighting coming out from under the water was really nice.
     
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  11. ChickenLover

    ChickenLover L2: Junior Member

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    Yes, this. I forgot about that. This really threw me off. I found it accidentally.
     
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  12. Lazy Eskimo

    Lazy Eskimo L2: Junior Member

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    I would recommend something very different in middle. It's a giant square with a pool in middle.

    Needs another door from 4th to 5th cp.
     
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  13. FleshGolem

    FleshGolem L1: Registered

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    As has been said already, pushing onto the last cap is a pain, and I'm sure if there was ever any defense set up on the 2nd caps it would be tough too.

    There are a few gaps here and there that look big enough to get through and aren't, and a few that don't look big enough and are, most notably in the 2nd cap areas. Speaking of the 2nd cap area, it just feels like there is too much junk lying around, maybe try to simplify it a bit.

    Final cap points, breakable glass is pretty much a no-no in TF2, and that building w/ the glass is very small. There also seemed to be something I'd occasionally collide with on the point itself.

    The middle point... I personally don't like it at all, huge area, pyros are near useless, the water tunnels leading into it are a maze, the ramp that opens up needs to be marked /signed better, and those corridors around that spawn area felt a little big.
     
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  14. Rikka

    Rikka L5: Dapper Member

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    I felt confused as to where to go walking out of initial spawn, wasn't sure where to go. I think you could simplify that a bit.

    The mid is just too large, and midfight is just a spam fest underwater. It seems like a better design would focus around controlling the area around the water, or even trying out placing cover under the water.

    Never battled at all in the 2nd point area, but it seemed too crowded.

    The final point seems like it could do with some spacing out. That seems to be the big problem everywhere, just too crowded. Even with the large mid it just descends to everyone jumping into the pool and spamming it out.
     
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  15. Flame

    aa Flame

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    I have a good feeling about this map... idk why,

    you need to get the mid CP out of the water for 1. I do like the point being surrounded by water as it adds a new aspect to mid fights which was never there before in that the fighting in the water may be crucial/add a new dynamic to the fight.

    Maybe take the point out of the water, and put a prism-esque structure above the water with a two small ammo and healths on both sides of the point underwater.

    The path from 3 to 1/5 needs to go. That is way too powerful in the hands of any good scout pair or spy. I think in 6v6 terms. This map does seem like it has a lot of competitive potential just based off the layout.

    I think the mid point area needs to be a little bit less long. I know its not longer than badlands mid just based off jump distance but it seems too bare. Maybe fixing the the mid point will make that less apparent.

    There also needs to be at least one more if not two more paths from 1/5 to 2/4 since one choke point is never a good idea. maybe find a way to add a path with more height and give the defending team some sort of height advantage so they arent sitting ducks behind those walls just waiting.

    I do like the map though, just needs a bit of work.
     
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  16. Flame

    aa Flame

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    there is a forward spawn with its own path just between mid and 2/4. Remove it, delete the whole path and put the forward spawn next to the sliding glass door room where the stairs are.

    The right side door from mid to 4 is kind of too much since it gives you a short way to last. somehow move that door to the second level by expanding the platform where the cap point is all the way to the other wall.

    The back of the warehouse also seems kind of unneeded. I think you should put the cap point where that announcer booth looking thing is to create some distance from mid to 2/4

    Also now that the right path from 3 to 4 is up top, you should put a path under it into the water at mid or something. the water seems unused despite the name laguna.

    The lack of transitions between the points makes me wonder if itll have a very fast spawn time or just very slow cap times.
     
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  17. H-land

    aa H-land

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    Testing bump for B9b.
     
  18. Shmitz

    aa Shmitz Old Hat

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    The forward spawns are awkward. Having to come out and then wind my way in a circle around some stairs seems tedious, and I'm not sure it takes any less time than if I were to just be running from the main spawn. Move it up to "ground" level off to the side instead of trying to tuck it underneath everything.
     
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  19. Kireas

    Kireas L1: Registered

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    You forgot a ceiling.
     
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  20. nik

    nik L12: Fabulous Member

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    oh hai thar whos that in the second screenshot :D



    anyways..

    played this today H-land, and it's pretty cool. I have a few suggestions:

    1. Try to fix your sliding doors and how they make shadows when they go up, or just disable shadows for the prop.

    2. MAKE RED'S SIDE BRIGHTER. even in spectator, when you switch between the cameras of the same spot in blue/red bases, you can see that blu's is much better lit.

    3. Sometimes when I was walking by the water, the surface would go opaque when I stopped walking in some areas, which was annoying (not sure about this problem)


    otherwise, keep working on it! :)
     
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