koth_dam

KotH koth_dam a12

Sep 28, 2016
109
61
This is more of a patch version but I decided to release it as a10 anyways.

Changes:
  • Removed deathpit access
  • Rotated spawns so that both doors are easily visible
  • Added some more cover to point
  • Added crates near point to allow access to the top catwalks
  • Made the main choke less wide
  • Made the side choke wider
  • Added a doorway in the building above point to nerf the sentry spot
  • Rearranged the building by the upper spawn exit to remove a sightline
  • Shortened cap time
  • Added two pillars by the point
a10 pics:
20170216163635_1.jpg 20170216163643_1.jpg 20170216163705_1.jpg 20170216163714_1.jpg 20170216163757_1.jpg 20170216163808_1.jpg

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Last edited:
Sep 28, 2016
109
61
I fixed a lot of minor issues in this version which should make the map more comp-ready.

Changes:
  • Widened map a bit
  • Moved the spawns further from point
  • Fixed spawns to allow 16 people on each team
  • Replaced all previous lighting with proper lighting
  • Made the nipple on point thinner
  • Added some displacement along rollout
  • Fixed single-step transitions
  • Added a flank where the dumpsters used to be
  • Added better roofs to signify out-of-bounds areas
  • Added some minor detailing around point
a11 pics:
20170306221113_1.jpg 20170306221152_1.jpg 20170306221207_1.jpg 20170306221246_1.jpg 20170306221306_1.jpg 20170306221324_1.jpg 20170306221353_1.jpg

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Last edited:
Sep 28, 2016
109
61
This version has some pretty significant changes and I'm prepared to stay in alpha for a bit longer to iron out the reblocked areas. Some of these changes weren't exactly necessary but I thought they'll make it feel better to play on.

Changes:
  • Changed to rotated symmetry
  • Lowered light brightnesses a bit
  • Moved the brick house forward a bit
  • Added some height variation inside the brick house
  • Swapped the stairs and choke positions on the main building
  • Rearranged rollout areas
  • Added a new rollout option to the left which leads to the gravel dump
  • Increased gravel dump height
  • Temporarily removed 3D skybox
  • Added doorway between the gravel dump and the main building
  • Removed the flank under point
  • Simplified some geometry
  • Reduced visleafs
  • Fixed capture zone decals for people with fps configs (hopefully)
  • Added a slope to the small hp and ammo under point
  • Removed railing on the upper catwalk
a12 pics:
20170504171943_1.jpg 20170504172025_1.jpg 20170504172044_1.jpg 20170504172109_1.jpg 20170504172145_1.jpg 20170504172213_1.jpg 20170504172702_1.jpg

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Red Robot

L1: Registered
Sep 7, 2015
10
25
Hey Turtle, I just took a quick look around.

I really appreciate your efforts to improve the flow of the map. The gravel spill area is great, and seems like it'll make for a really interesting combat space. Some of the stairways still seem a bit blocky, maybe try fiddling with your ratio of width to height on each step?

I understand why you removed the side route/underground area. The simplified layout makes you map a lot more easily readible, however now there is no way to sneak around the middle point other than pretty much walking straight over it. There's nothing blatantly wrong with that, think the difference between viaduct and viaduct pro, with pro having the small route that connects concrete.

I think the middle (nipple hehe) point will we interesting to play around, but I am worried about how attacking teams will be able to approach it. It seems like people already on the point have a pretty massive height advantage, and players that attack from the higher side routes are walking on very thin, narrow platforms that will be easy to spam out. I'm going to reference viaduct again because it's apparantly the only map I can think of right now, but it gives the defenders on the point high ground, but attackers have cover (up on cliff or behind the rock) and a lot of space to push. Unless the attackers on your map go attack on the ramp up to the point, they are walking on thin platforms (the bridge to the point, the thin walkway on the left and the very spammable room drop down on the right.)

Keep in mind that entire ^ paragraph was just theorycrafting so feel free to ignore it. Oh, and now I look at it again, the catwalk on the left is nowhere near as thin as it looked, why is half of it the same texture as the wall I can't see it! :p

I really appreciate the small touches such as the one way window in lobby, the more creative health placement (1 medium and two small with one of the small being placed in a dangerous spot at mid), the fancy spot lighting you've implemented so far and how your knowledge of competitive play shines through with your design.

Not so keen on the concrete texture all over the walls (concrete + rain makes me sad), some of the general blockiness in the map (some walls are way too thick, along with some stairs as I mentioned earlier) and some of the brushwork could use tidying up, but these are all cosmetic things that really shouldn't be stressed right now. (Except for brushwork, I think you should try to keep that as tidy as possible from the start to make things easier later on)

Anyway, I'm super jealous of your consistency with updates and I wish you the best of luck with getting dam completed. You're doing a really good job.
 
Sep 28, 2016
109
61
Thanks Red Robot, that means a lot!

In the previous version there was a couple small flanks around the point but I temporarily removed them in order to make it easier to deal with the new symmetry. I am planning on re-adding a flank if it seems necessary after testing.

Previously the nipple has been a little annoying to play around but it is very good at blocking sightlines. I am thinking about several ways to remedy this and I might remove it in the future. We'll see how testing goes though.

Currently I am using the variations of concrete textures as better dev textures since I find the dev textures somewhat boring to use. I do plan on making everything much more visually pleasing (and green) in beta.

Thanks again for the feedback :)
 

Red Robot

L1: Registered
Sep 7, 2015
10
25
Hey, I was lucky enough to randomly get into this map during an imp, so I'll leave my gameplay feedback from that.

The nipple is really cool, but it's probably op for scouts, the gullywash high ground is good because it requires an amount of effort to get to, but dodging back and forth on the control point on dam is like an even better version of the rocks on viaduct, which are already infuriating when scouts are abusing them. Making it the size of gullywash would be an interesting change, but I'm sure you can come up with something more creative.

A few players were complaining about how easy it is to spam into the lobbies from mid, perhaps widening the chokepoints could help with that. The upper catwalk seemed to be working well. Some other players were complaining about bumping into the poles at mid, perhaps clipping them with lots of clip brushes would make players slide around them instead of coming to a halt backpedalling.

All things considered I had a ton of fun during the map test, despite being all full time mini sentry slaying duty (two minisentries on mid, one on the low ground so it can't be spammed out from long range is suffering) I felt like I had a really good time! Now I'm wishing I had recorded it so I could give you that, but now I'm remembering that you probably have the demos from the competitive playtest (which is probably more useful to you than watching a shortstop + crit a cola scout slaying a map test lol)
 
Sep 28, 2016
109
61
I am thinking of removing the nipple but I'll have to work on the sightlines. A different change might be more effective though.

I agree that the lobbies are a little too open but I didn't want to make the entrances too small. I have plans for widening other routes so that I can close up the lobbies a little.

Now I'm wishing I had recorded it so I could give you that
It's alright, feedback.tf2maps.net includes the demos! Thanks for letting me know though, it's always nice to hear direct feedback!
 
Sep 28, 2016
109
61
I've decided to work on a map other than dam because it's been several months since I've touched it. I probably won't be making any more updates here but feel free to check out my new map koth_fragile!