Is CTF as weird as I think?

Discussion in 'Mapping Questions & Discussion' started by Pianodan, Jun 4, 2009.

  1. Pianodan

    Pianodan L3: Member

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    I was asking ABS for help yesterday in the chatroom on my first CTF map. It's slowly dawning on me just how odd that mode is.

    Where other modes have entites setting up important parameters, ctf doesn't. You can't specify things like team swaps/no team swaps on victory, or even the number of points in a round without resorting to a point_servercommand. Why aren't there the equivalent of a team_control_master, or a tf_trainwatcher for ctf maps?

    Or do I just have everything wrong?
     
  2. TMP

    aa TMP Abuser of Site Rules

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    ctf is a relatively simple mode. Thus, it doesn't require too much.
     
  3. l3eeron

    l3eeron L8: Fancy Shmancy Member

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    It just seems weird because it's so simple lol. I guess they assume you know how to tweak the system. It aint that hard, no biggy. Obviously Boojy knows it all, but if for some reason you think I might be able to help, hit me up!
     
  4. grazr

    aa grazr Old Man Mutant Ninja Turtle

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    CTF isn't a very dynamic mode, there's no need to switch teams as they'll end up in the wrong themed base . There's no need to change spawn times, this would unbalance the game. There are no dynamic spawn rooms as the map is static. Of course this limits the creativity of what could be produced of the mode.

    As everyone's said so far though, it's a pretty simple mode.
     
  5. Pianodan

    Pianodan L3: Member

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    Well, that's just it. I don't want my creativity limited. I want to determine spawn times, switching at the end of games, and the like. I could easily envision a multiround ctf game where after 3 points, you move to another area. But I can't program it. Sigh.
     
  6. -gr-

    -gr- L1: Registered

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    I've used CTF mode to build a map where the flag and return/capture both for both teams are completely dynamic. That is, they move every time a flag is captured, by team. The clan loved it. Very fast paced, prevented deadlocks, and kept people moving and thinking.

    The biggest variable I've found with CTF is where you place the flag and capture points relative to the bases. This may seem obvious, but there really isn't any reason why the red/blu bases have to be involved in any way with the flag or the capture point.

    Moreover, you can also have a common flag and a common capture point, in another variation.

    Put simply, you could have something like this:

    .\C/.
    R X B
    ./F\.

    if you get what I mean, where red and blu teams spawn in arbitrary locations as long as both are equidistant from both the flag and the capture point. This keeps the action away from the bases and out in the field. Solves a lot of spawn-zerging problems without having to make the respawn time overly long, which many (if public servers are any indications) players dislike.

    How about a city/town theme where the flag & capture point each spawn in different buildings each time, and there are no bases? Wrap your head around that one... :laugh:

    Additionally, there are also mechanisms whereby a/the flag(s) are kept out in the open, but to gain access your team must perform a task, reach a goal, obtain a key, do whatever. This adds another dynamic.

    Finally, you can mix it all up with having to grab the flag at YOUR base and take it to the heart of the other teams territory/base to score. And to really make it hard? Return time of zero on the flag, that's always a curve ball.

    Custom CTF is all we play on our private server. Our clan didn't want custom CP/PL as there's so many of them in Valve's official map list already. :thumbup:
     
  7. grazr

    aa grazr Old Man Mutant Ninja Turtle

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    This is pretty much the biggest complaint from anyone who ever played TFC and now maps for TF2. TFC allowed for such variaty where TF2 seems incredibly limited, even the other game modes have their limits (although there are some complicated entity setups that may get what you desire to work, it still generally leaves you with a broken HUD and some seriously confused players).

    TF2 has been over specialised with it's modes and time limitations. End rounds and sudden death, etc, etc. In TFC this did that and bobs your uncle (oh and there were no spawn times to control). Maps lasted a pre-determined amount of time as a whole, there was no addition to the clock per capture, so pretty much anything could be achieved with the flag.

    CTF was designed to be CTF whilst Valve concentrated on their new game modes, namely CP, which was to replace many of the flag courrier maps. In TFC everything centred around the Flag but now it doesn't and so we have issues with people who want to utilise it in intuitive ways; there's just no support for it.
     
  8. Walliard

    Walliard L1: Registered

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    There should be a way to do this. Have an OnCapture output which increments a math_counter, or something like that. It's not pretty, and I agree Valve should've added more functionality, but it seems like it'd work.
     
  9. StoneFrog

    StoneFrog L6: Sharp Member

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    In TFC everything revolved around item_tfgoal and info_tfgoal entities which singlehandedly managed everything for gametypes. Now, as you said, TF2's entities are too specialized to really allow that much diversity. Instead of an info_tfgoal triggered by an item_tfgoal sending off messages and points to capture a point, we have these limited capture point entities that are for just that - capture points.
     
  10. l3eeron

    l3eeron L8: Fancy Shmancy Member

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    ya well, CTF is easy to set up an ordinary map. But that doesn't mean there aren't things you can do.
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2009
  11. TheBladeRoden

    TheBladeRoden L7: Fancy Member

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    Has anyone made a Hold the Flag map yet?