how to make harvest a proper koth competitive map

[IL momentum]

recently i wanted to make harvest a proper 6v6 map but i dont know how so if you have ideas pls tell me

 

[rednico6]

I've been playing Harvest on FACEIT, and that's 12v12 comp, but generally I hate the map as a medic main because all the flank routes make it feel impossible to get a consistent "frontline" on that map. It's an issue that many KOTH maps have as they try to sorta build pathways around the point leading to the actual frontline widening, which stretches your forces, makes it hard to form teams, and makes more openings for flanks.

Let's look at bad water: For the first point, you're either pushing the surface or into the tunnel. The surface gives you full view of its left and right sides, even if mobility is impeded by height differences. And flanking via the tunnel is difficult as its isolated, puts you in a firing line to any guarding enemies, and puts you either in low ground behind RED team's line, or right in front of BLU's spawn where you'll get fragged. As long as you can manage those two routes, you have a frontline.

In the second section, you just have the narrow choke point the cart follows, and then that building with the stairs and the balcony view of the second point. There's also that field with the shipping crates but that spot is useless. Only two routes to watch.

The third section has a low ground, and two higher balcony flanks, one of which I believe requires special jumping to cross. So only two routes unless you get a fancy soldier or scout trying to be creative.

The fourth and final section is bad but by that point it's the end of the game and you've sorta accepted the outcome of the match. First the map converges all the flank routes from the third section into one horrid choke which is easy for RED to manage, but if BLU can push in with an uber, things go downhill fast, both literally and metaphorically, for RED. There's the main route and the left flank which splits into either a full highground view of the pit, or a path into RED's side of the pit bottom which is heavily guarded by the stairs so its easy to get a pick and escape up them.
And then there's the right flank which gives another full view of the pit, is more defended from enemies in the pit, and requires a detour just for RED to access. Thankfully they get their own highground to jump on flankers from, but BLU can then just retreat into the previous chamber, with their own wall shield and chokepoint. And if RED jumps off that inside balcony, they're sorta trapped in there unless they wanna jump out the window which deals fall damage and may be dangerous if enemies are down there.

Everything until the last point is great. Harvest is basically the last point of badwater for 10 minutes, if RED had their spawn on the second to last control point. You are always going to get flanked by something you didn't see coming. And your attacker will always have the choice to run away scot free.

 

[Skye]

Some big issues I've seen with Harvest are:
-too friendly for classes with mobility
What I mean is:
-demos can jump all the way to the opposing team's spawn without stopping
-scouts can just jump across the roof, and with the winger can reach other spots that classes like heavy and spy can't reach
-soldiers can jump all the way to the opposing team's roof (like demo), and can even do speed pogos to reach it even faster
-too friendly for spam classes
What I mean is:
-The point is too easily spammable by soldiers and demos, and pyros can drop down and wm1
-The stairs in each house are super campable
-sniper is super good
Snipers can just stand on the roof of a house and pop off with little to no opposition from their enemies, except for mobility classes
-extreme flanking
I don't think I need to explain this one