How do you prevent spawn camping?

Discussion in 'Mapping Questions & Discussion' started by GrimGriz, May 16, 2009.

  1. GrimGriz

    GrimGriz L10: Glamorous Member

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    Looking at dustbowl and goldrush, it would seem one way is to have a single spawn exit lead to a short corridor which opens into multiple exits.

    What methods do you use/like?
     
  2. Acegikmo

    aa Acegikmo

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    I try to make the spawn have at least two paths, which can't be guarded at the same time by one player.
     
  3. grazr

    aa grazr Old Man Mutant Ninja Turtle

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    A good method is having a spawn exit drop down into an area. Spam may still be and may always be an issue. But having an exit in an out of reach place will prevent direct spawn camping.

    Think second advanced spawn on Granary. But on a slightly larger scale, as it's a fairly minor spawn.
     
  4. SiniStarR

    SiniStarR L8: Fancy Shmancy Member

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    can turn a brush into a func_respawnroomvisualizer and just prevent the team from reaching a certain point, but then you have to worry about camper :(
     
  5. StoneFrog

    StoneFrog L6: Sharp Member

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    Just be sure there's enough corners/open space to ensure an Engineer can't plop a sentry down right in front of the outlet! :O
     
  6. HoundDawg

    HoundDawg L1: Registered

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    Your spawn rooms should at least have one of the exits be the wide door, where 3 players can fit through. This will allow for a sizable zerg out with minimal consequences. The other exits can be narrow doors. You can't completely design for non-campers, but you can at least provide different exits so that it's minimized. Also, make sure your exit isn't an easy SG camp either (by providing ammo so close to the spawn room, provide a good SG location, etc...).
     
  7. bittman

    bittman L1: Registered

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    Yeah, I agree with everyone who suggests wide exits + distanced spawn exits. Even some Valve maps don't get it right (e.g. badwater's first spawn is fine, spawn you move to after 3rd capture is easy to camp).

    I'd also suggest spawn exits of different heights, I've never seen a multi-level spawn successfully camped.

    For reference, though Hydro isn't a map spawn camping happens with, most of their spawn rooms are very well done.

    Goldrush and Dustbowl are both good and bad. I was going to say Dustbowl 1st blue spawn was my favourite, but the supply locker is easily targetted with stickies, and red spawns in Dustbowl are easy to camp.

    Which brings me to a second note. Make sure BOTH blue AND red cannot be spawn camped. I never got why Valve made some red spawns so easy to camp (e.g. goldrush 1 and 2).
     
  8. engoldin

    engoldin L2: Junior Member

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    There are innumerable ways to discourage spawn camping though no way prohibiting the other team from accessing the vicinity of the spawn. Even then though, the term spawn camping is malleable and camping as close to the spawn as is possible could qualify.

    Dustbowl and Goldrush discourage spawn camping... By placing it behind one of several bottlenecks, by placing the spawns too far away from the action to be "worth" camping. By limiting resources (health) near the spawn. By limiting cover near the spawn. By ensuring that the spawn can only be effectively camped if one is close to it (backward facing spawns/ visibility limitation). By having multiple, separated, respawn room exits.

    However, there are other ways to discourage spawn camping... By decreasing the respawn wave time. By situating spawns exits so that the come from multiple directions and effectively (cover) one another. By enabling those in the respawn room to see out of it. By enabling those in the respawn room to fire out of it. By fortifying the respawn room exits. By placing respawn exits in places that are highly visible. By limiting avenues of escape for the spawn camper. Etc. Hope this was helpful. Good luck.
     
  9. Loc_n_lol

    Loc_n_lol L10: Glamorous Member

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    Do it the TFC way : put an invulnerable lvl 3 sentry in the spawn.
     
  10. YM

    aa YM LVL100 YM

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    Damnit I was just about to post EXACTLY the same idea.
     
  11. HoundDawg

    HoundDawg L1: Registered

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    I hate playing on non-fast respawn servers, especially due to spawn campers. Attack and defend maps are the worst with long respawn times. But, this is my opinion and preferred gameplay.

    As for the rest of engoldin's article, it was well written and I agree.
     
  12. wiseguy149

    wiseguy149 Emperor of Entities and Amateur of Aesthetics

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    People being able to spawn camp BLU is a problem.

    However, as long as spawn camping RED takes more than one player, it isn't as big of a problem, because the attackers have to push through enemy territory to get there.


    Anyway, multiple, wide exits is the way to go.
    Also, multiple spawns is a VERY good thing, like RED's last dustbowl spawn or RED's spawn at the end of badwater.
     
  13. Dan2025

    Dan2025 L2: Junior Member

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    If you're dealing with a base system (like standard CTF maps like 2fort) the easiest method would probably be to have each spawn have two different exits that are difficult, if not impossible, to both camp at once. The second spawn in 2fort is a good example. You can camp the exit leading to the battlements, but then enemy players can always just drop down into the hallway; it's literally impossible for one person to camp both exits at the same time.
     
  14. Mar

    Mar Banned

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    Also, make sure the resupply cabinet is handy so the trapped players can easily bust out the spawn campers. In a 5 cp push map, your spawn should always be in extremely low traffic areas.

    In CTF your spawn should be off the path from the intel for multiple reasons, and in attack and defense the spawn should be far enough from the the point so the defender will need to quickly scramble from the spawn to the point.

    Also, low metal and health is a good idea.
     
  15. engoldin

    engoldin L2: Junior Member

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    Mar's completely right, I missed that one. Accessible resupply cabinets make a large difference as well.
     
  16. kwagner

    kwagner L2: Junior Member

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    What do you mean by 'accessible resupply cabinets?' I ask because on my maps my spawn rooms have been kinda small, and I've pondered the location of the resupply cabinets within them.

    Should I tuck them around a corner of the spawn room, so if campers are shooting into the spawn whenever the door opens, trapped players can access the cabinet without being shot?

    Or should the cabinet be in the line of fire, so a trapped player can be getting health and ammo boosts while trying to take out the campers?

    Or something else?
     
  17. l3eeron

    l3eeron L8: Fancy Shmancy Member

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    Just my opinion, but

    NEVER have a regen locker accessible from outside the room. Keep them tucked back around a corner so you have to be fully inside the room to get it.