CP Gullywash

[Icarus]

How soon can we expect the next iteration?

Sorry to pester you, but the way it ignores mp_timelimit is very bothersome.

 

[Arnold]

i'm working on it as we speak, i understand that it's very bothersome my apologies.

EDIT:

Ok i think i've resolved all of the issues in this thread and i have tried to optimise the map a bit more, changed a lot of the lay-out too in order to make it less chaotic.

i really think the changes that have been made are for the best.

too bad i didn't have a changelog (again)

b11 released

download

 

[Icarus]

Just make another post. I nearly missed your update because you didn't bump it.

Worselands B11 Gameplay Demo: http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/831776/worse11.dem

The map generally became too stalematey between points 2-3. Consider adding another route.
Additionally, there was an overpowering sentry location near Cap 2 that became a ridiculous task to take down.

 

[Arnold]

well this map is made for the etf2l compo where they asked for a competitive 6v6 map.

you played with 32 players but i think i don't need to add another route seeing granary has way smaller chokepoints and is played competitively. and the size of my chokepoints is about the same as badlands, so i think it's fit for competitive play, adding another route would cause some serious issues.

the sentry spot isn't really overpowered i once saw a scout kill the sentry with his pistol. all that was needed was a coordinated uber push with a demoman to take them all down.

i'll fix the teleporter issue and try to make the wall seem less "out of place"

the reason i put it there is to optimize the map more, and make for smoother gameplay since nobody likes playing a map with fps drops.

thanks again for the feedback really it's greatly appreciated.

 

[Icarus]

I think it's because of the incredible height advantage the defenders had.

In badlands, attackers had 3 entrances (near cap 3, the building, and through the enemy spawn), only 1 of them gave defenders height advantage.

In Granary, there were 2.5 entrances (defenders had a covered route over everything)

Your map only has 2 entrances, taking either of them would force you to an extreme height disadvantage as both caps are elevated. This is not the case in Granlands.

Perhaps another route is not necessary, but please do something about the sentries. It is very annoying when the majority of the time was entirely focused on how to take out that damn sentry.

 

[MangyCarface]

32 player servers point out problems faster than 6v6 playtests can. For example, the sample size is too small in 6v6s so you can never tell whether the taking of a point was because of one team's skill or because of something in the map. In your case, retaking 2 is entirely too easy for defenders. Perhaps give a larger spawntime advantage to attackers after 2 is taken, or re-evaluate how defenders can get to that point (namely how they can jump from the one wooden ledge, an annoying sentry spot, to the top level of catwalks around the point)

 

[Arnold]

i wouldn't say retaking 2 is too easy for defenders, it's just that a sentry that doesn't completely cover the entire area is a problem. (the problem was rather the defenders being able to hold 2)

i would say that the team just needed a demoman, or needed to take down the teleporters that kept the flow of enemies straight onto balcony going (which you did once and they eventually killed the sentry when it happened, or going in with uber from the other side with a demoman where he can easily lob a few stickies on the balcony.

you can also evade the sentry by going below the little ledge instead of around and place some stickies below the sentry. (you can hit the sentry but it can't hit you)

if the sentry is placed on the balcony it can't hit you when you attack spire from the other side so soldiers and snipers should make quick work of that.

i just don't really feel the sentry is that big of a problem.

i will take another look at it if another playtest points out the exact same problem and different approaches don't work. but atm i feel like there hasn't been a decent response to the problem from the opposing team.

 

[Icarus]

it's kind of lame to have a sentry that you need an uber to take out.

 

[pekken]

noone build sentries in 6v6 anyway.

 

[Arnold]

well you don't need an uber, it just ensures you can take down the sentry.

 

[Arnold]

new version b12

http://startdownload.filefront.com/...e416b4af74704d264687e58a0000293a14d4ae0f8c3//

*Spawntimes fixed
*Removed wall at balcony
*Rotated 2nd forward respawn to prevent players getting lost
*removed medium ammo pack at balcony
*some changed were made to lower level mid to compensate for the respawn getting bigger.

 

[Icarus]

Arnold, I found the problem with your spawn times.

When you change their value in hammer, you are changing respawn WAVES. The default (and maximum) wave time valve uses is 10 seconds... you have yours set to 12, which causes players to have respawn times higher than 20 seconds!!

After you capture points, your spawn time actually gets HIGHER for some reason, and you get waves of 15 seconds! (30 Second respawns!!)

 

[Arnold]

that's really odd, thanks for letting me know i guess i'll just have to compensate for the changes i really have no idea where the extra 3 (6) seconds come from...

edit: can you plz tell me if it were the defenders or attacks of last point that got the 30 seconds of rewpawn times, or was it just everybody?

 

[Icarus]

Right from the start everyone got 12 second waves. attackers got higher respawn times as they progressed into the enemy base.

When you modify the spawn times using the capture areas, use negative numbers, and don't set the default any higher than 10 seconds.

If you're still confused, send screens of your logic_auto and capture_area properties.

 

[Arnold]

download

i really hope it's fixed now, i didn't use a value higher than 11 because when i left the spawntimes default it let the attackers spawn way too fast. :/

also added a route and several visual updates and clipping fixes.

 

[captainAngry]

The map looks real nice. I will be adding it to my server for my Monday/Tuesday play test.

 

[Arnold]

http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p330/Arnoldtf/cp_worselands_rc10004.png?t=1241328480

http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p330/Arnoldtf/cp_worselands_rc10005.png?t=1241328480

http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p330/Arnoldtf/cp_worselands_rc10008.png?t=1241328482

http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p330/Arnoldtf/cp_worselands_rc10011.png?t=1241328483

http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p330/Arnoldtf/cp_worselands_rc10015.png?t=1241328483

http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p330/Arnoldtf/cp_worselands_rc10016.png?t=1241328484

DOWNLOAD rc1:



*middle has been made smaller
*totally visually revised
*added details
*no more long spawntimes ever
*bug fixes

 

[Icarus]

Dear lord! It's like you update this every other day!

We'll wait for the final before we put this on our server.

 

[Randdalf]

Looks really good now

You need a 3D skybox though.

The final point especially looks great.

 

[kankle_king]

Only major complaint last time was the 30 sec spawns lol. So now thats fixed, we'll be playing this tonight in our PUG, add me on steam I'll give you a STV. steam id: b_myne