CP Gullywash

Arnold · May 8, 2009

*tried to add a "theme" to mid point
*added several details
*fixed several bugs
*some more optimisation
*changed some lights

and

NAMECHANGE!

cp_gullywash_rc1
download

pekken · May 8, 2009

Hi, I cant think of any more to comment about the gameplay. I think its very good atm

Since it's close to final, I'd like to point out some design/detail stuff.

I've seen many people trying to run inside the first forward spawn trying to escape inside.
You should change the door model to this one used in granary, so it will be clear for both teams that you can't get in this door. You could also add resupply signs above it.

I know most of these are very small and doesn't really matter at all, I just like to point them out

Arnold · May 8, 2009

thanks a lot, i knew several of them but not all so thanks once again

kankle_king · May 8, 2009

This map played very very well and most everyone in the 6v6 PUG enjoyed it. It flows nicely, and feels fresh even though its nothing new as fas as 5CP's go. Thats not a bad thing mind you (note Follower). I think you did a great job making a very playable, teamwork based map. I could see this being used in 6v6 comp play, I know we will be adding it to our PUG rotation. This and cp_outlaw are the hot new highly requested maps this month, so keep up the great work.

SUGGESTIONS: the ladder at 2/4 is 'clumsy' to walk up, make it smoother so its more liek walking up than having to zig-zag like you do now. Raise the celing on the last point: It needs to be much higher so Ubers can be more effective having sollys and demos jump at the defending team. This will also help the water backup idea, which I think is great. Right now last plays with a lot of spam until someone ubers, need more height overall and maybe even an additional level for the attacking team.

PMAvers · May 8, 2009

It's definitely coming together good. Havn't run it yet, but hoping to tonight.

Something I noticed... but, is there any chance you can make the watertower visible from the second points? It's definitely tall enough that it should be over those buildings between it and the point, but all you see right now is sky. It's not major if it will break optimization, but it's just a consistency thing.

Icarus · May 9, 2009

Arnold said:
*tried to add a "theme" to mid point
*added several details
*fixed several bugs
*some more optimisation
*changed some lights

and

NAMECHANGE!

cp_gullywash_rc1
download

If you don't mind me asking, how long until we can hope to see the final?

We like the map, but these rapid updates are concerning us. We're just hoping for a rough estimate so we know how we should carry out the updates.

Arnold · May 9, 2009

well i needed to update the map so fast because little changes can make or break the map, i know it's a real hassle to keep up with the updates so i'm sorry for that.

Final version can be expected after rc2 which i hope will be the last version before final.
i'll release rc2 somewhere around this time next week.

kankle_king: the ladder wasn't really meant to be climable, it just turned out that way because of how the source engine works. you won't be able to climb it in the final.

Arnold · May 15, 2009

CP3:
(has 2 levels and an obstacle in the middle of it to change the flat and sqaured cappoints used in all 5cp maps)

CP2:
(you can cap and block cap from the top, but you cannot jump while doing so, if you jump they can cap again)

CP1:

DOWNLOAD rc3b(gullywash):
http://files.filefront.com/cp+gullywash+rc3b7z/;13760880;/fileinfo.html

Cerious · May 15, 2009

How does mid work? Can you cap below it, or do you have to get on top of it? PS fantastic visuals! you have to be my favorite pro player/mapper.

Arnold · May 15, 2009

you can cap mid below and on top of it

Arnold · May 16, 2009

some panoramic views of the map,
sorry looks like the host removed the panorama's

Also, could an admin plz change the name of the topic to gullywash? thnx much

MangyCarface · May 16, 2009

404'in on the panorams, bud :S

Lazy Eskimo · May 27, 2009

Problem with middle is soldiers get on different sides of platform and just spam. I don't think soldiers really have any other option. Demos can go down low and have possibility to go up ramp. Scouts can flank but the areas are so cramped I think that they will just get overwhelmed easily.

The distance between cps is a concern specially mid and 4th. If you come out a little ahead on mid they might be forced to go to last cp.

MangyCarface said:
32 player servers point out problems faster than 6v6 playtests can. For example, the sample size is too small in 6v6s so you can never tell whether the taking of a point was because of one team's skill or because of something in the map. In your case, retaking 2 is entirely too easy for defenders. Perhaps give a larger spawntime advantage to attackers after 2 is taken, or re-evaluate how defenders can get to that point (namely how they can jump from the one wooden ledge, an annoying sentry spot, to the top level of catwalks around the point)

32 players screws with balance of tf2 and how it should be played. You get a lot of problems with that many people. If it's good players in a 6v6 they can determine better ways to take advantage of map and can pick out faults in map much better. I don't understand how it's easier to tell if it's skill or map with 32 players.

kankle_king · May 27, 2009

I'm confused, we've been playing gullywash rc1....

MangyCarface · May 27, 2009

Lazy Eskimo said:
32 players screws with balance of tf2 and how it should be played. You get a lot of problems with that many people. If it's good players in a 6v6 they can determine better ways to take advantage of map and can pick out faults in map much better. I don't understand how it's easier to tell if it's skill or map with 32 players.

6v6 screws as much with balance as 16v16 does. Vanilla is and always will be 9-12 v 9-12. I already pointed out why 32p can help show balance problems, as respawn becomes more important, so if you don't understand that, then I'd never expect you to.

And for what it's worth, the proportion of feedback-capable (read: those who understand what good feedback in mapping is) individuals is the same for 6v6s as it is for larger games. So in the end, you actually get more competent feedbackers from larger games... I speak from experience on this issue.

Lazy Eskimo · May 28, 2009

6v6 is small but not close to how flawed 32 is. I don't really see how it's more obvious with respawn times but whatever.

It's a fact that on avg a skilled player knows what he's talking about more.

Tinker · May 29, 2009

MangyCarface said:
6v6 screws as much with balance as 16v16 does. Vanilla is and always will be 9-12 v 9-12. I already pointed out why 32p can help show balance problems, as respawn becomes more important, so if you don't understand that, then I'd never expect you to.

And for what it's worth, the proportion of feedback-capable (read: those who understand what good feedback in mapping is) individuals is the same for 6v6s as it is for larger games. So in the end, you actually get more competent feedbackers from larger games... I speak from experience on this issue.

So why not just play in a 12 v 12?

Arnold · May 30, 2009

kankle_king · May 30, 2009

Changes look OK. Looks like the defending team has even more of an advantage in 2/4 so that looks bad. (just going of screens here!) Also, like Icarus said some more signage outta spawn for those ppl that get lost a lot

. I thought there was a final, so I am glad to see you are finishing it with improvements. Hopefully can playtest tonight and give you some 6v6 comp feedback. I think this map and cp_outlaw have the most potential to be the next follower/yukon.

ps: anyone know whats up with cp_outlaw/cp_mapnel?! Can't find it anywhere. The b1 was great, just needed minor fixes...sry for putting this in your thread arnold

Arnold · May 31, 2009

I added some signage out of the 2nd forward respawn i don't think the first forward respawn suffered from people running in the wrong direction.

If you decide to test it a stv demo could be of great help, if that's possible.

I don't know what's up with mapnel, maybe you should contact the mapmaker jasska http://etf2l.org/forum/user/458/

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