- Apr 29, 2008
- 1,068
- 709
I'm pretty certain the Latin word for iron is ferrum, not ferris.
[/offtopic]
I've always liked the sound of thallium. That may be just cos it sounds like valium though...
Last edited:
Grit
- Thread starter YM
- Start date
[/offtopic]
I've always liked the sound of thallium. That may be just cos it sounds like valium though...
The point of steel may have been that it was a steel mill, but thats not all that obvious.
I'd like to pick a theme too sometime soon, pending 48 hours with grandparents and playing several games of scrabble (ie, being exposed to more unusual words) yeilded no interesting lines of investigation.
I'd like to pick a theme too sometime soon, pending 48 hours with grandparents and playing several games of scrabble (ie, being exposed to more unusual words) yeilded no interesting lines of investigation.
- Apr 19, 2009
- 4,460
- 1,722
Gravelpit gets my vote.
- Dec 28, 2008
- 944
- 1,152
A) Nerdboy
B) Nineaxis
C) The Political Gamer
D) All of the above
For anyone who can stomach 3 hours of me mapping to silence, this video is repeating and available (along with others) on-demand on my livestream page http://www.livestream.com/ym_mapping
As of this post, my 3 hour session has just started, in an hour there's going to be some displacements!
hmy:
Last edited:
I saw that copy from gravel pit
SlayerBlitz
L3: Member
- Dec 3, 2009
- 120
- 46
this map was really fun but it has some serious problems.
You need to change E. Instead of it being far down to begin with, make it so high up, only demos, soldiers, and maybe FaN scouts can reach it. With each cap, it should go lower and lower. Also make it a little bigger (if its high up at the start, it doesnt really need to be small) and instead of a bunch of walkways coming out, just make railing come up or make sort of diving boards come out so players can run down them and fall down to the point. Most importantly, reduce the cap time by a little bit.
A is WAY to hard to cap. Maybe you could make a passage way to the left that goes down there to a sort of balcony.
This is a major one but I think you'll like the idea. How about after capping A, D becomes open and after capping B, C becomes open. That way, no matter what happens until you reach E, there will always be 2 points to choose from.
From Blue spawn after capping A,B,C, and D that 1 door opens up going to E. Maybe you could put some more doors that open up in front of that door, so it will be a straight shot to E, instead of having to take a bunch of turns.
You need to put some hazard tape on the floor around spawns, I couldn't tell if I was capping it or not when a bunch of people were on it.
Some more signs for the points would be nice. It was easy to get lost.
Also the most important thing of all, GET RID OF THOSE TELES. It makes the map way to easy to defend, causing a up hill battle right from the start. The reason maps have long set up times is because red team has to run all the way to blu. You could easily just get rid of the teles, or give the map like a 15 sec start up time which would ruin all hopes of building a uber, making a sentry, figuring out where the hell everything is, or just showing off sprays.
I hope some of this was helpful and the gravelpit style looks great.
You need to change E. Instead of it being far down to begin with, make it so high up, only demos, soldiers, and maybe FaN scouts can reach it. With each cap, it should go lower and lower. Also make it a little bigger (if its high up at the start, it doesnt really need to be small) and instead of a bunch of walkways coming out, just make railing come up or make sort of diving boards come out so players can run down them and fall down to the point. Most importantly, reduce the cap time by a little bit.
A is WAY to hard to cap. Maybe you could make a passage way to the left that goes down there to a sort of balcony.
This is a major one but I think you'll like the idea. How about after capping A, D becomes open and after capping B, C becomes open. That way, no matter what happens until you reach E, there will always be 2 points to choose from.
From Blue spawn after capping A,B,C, and D that 1 door opens up going to E. Maybe you could put some more doors that open up in front of that door, so it will be a straight shot to E, instead of having to take a bunch of turns.
You need to put some hazard tape on the floor around spawns, I couldn't tell if I was capping it or not when a bunch of people were on it.
Some more signs for the points would be nice. It was easy to get lost.
Also the most important thing of all, GET RID OF THOSE TELES. It makes the map way to easy to defend, causing a up hill battle right from the start. The reason maps have long set up times is because red team has to run all the way to blu. You could easily just get rid of the teles, or give the map like a 15 sec start up time which would ruin all hopes of building a uber, making a sentry, figuring out where the hell everything is, or just showing off sprays.
I hope some of this was helpful and the gravelpit style looks great.
Already implemented exactly that.
I found both A and B are generally to hard to cap, I also hope that this issue is addressed already with what I've done for _a3
Interesting, but I don't like it so much.
Not sure what you want here, there are four doors, each opens after a point is capped (D's door is closest to spawn, A's is closest to E) and that route is a pretty damn direct route to E :bored:
Added signs above each point saying which it is, with the exception of E. Generally the place is flooded with signs, you just need to look at them before you start on your journey.
Haztape Shmaztape. To quote the scout:
He's right, if there are already several people on the point, you can be more use moving out and defending them than standing on the point yourself and shaving off an extra half second of cap time. (remember that after four or so people additional people make no difference to cap times!)The Scout said:
You do NOT want to play this map without them. It will never, ever work, the instant red start they'll just get totally lost, at current red start and know exactly where they're going. Positioning of them and spawn times can be tailored to give red and blue roughly equal (read: fair) run times to points. It isn't the teleporters that are making it too easy to defend.
Last edited:
- Apr 19, 2009
- 4,460
- 1,722
Alright Youme I like it that you are trying to take the steel style of game-play but you overlooked a very important detail about Steel; its flow.
First is Spawn to A or E
In steel its very straight forward and to the point. (pun intended)
However in your map things work very differently.
You have to go though A and C or B and D to get to E. This is not necessarily a bad thing but its more of a nitpick that you have to go a bit out of your way to get to E.
Now back in Steel BLU has capped A and are moving on to B.
You can see that from the flow of the map players are drawn to B or E.
This is where Thorium starts to the problems big time.
After capping A or B the players will naturally want to push up. However, this does not send them to the point they want but rather C or D. Players do this and will keep doing it because the big sign to the point they should be going to is shoved away nowhere to be found.
Meanwhile at steel BLU has capped B.
Team is pushing for C and E at the same time keeping the pressure up on RED.
Now in Thorium BLU has recouped capped A and B and are moving on to C and D.
At this point BLU's resources are spread very thin. They have to walk a good long way to each of the 3 points and keep the pressure up on all of them. Juggling 3 points is hard when they are far away but 3 is a bit nuts.
Aright back to steel were A,B, and C are capped.
Now things are getting hard for BLU not only is D far but RED is breathing down there neck. Most BLU wins happen at this stage. Only about half the time D is ever capped because it is so far away and so close to RED spawn. Were as E is very accessible for ether team.
Now one last look at Thorium. all the points have been capped but E.
A cropped out this one little sliver because thats all the final fight at E is. Right now the player is draw like a bug to a bright light to the most direct path instead of taking the longer but more tactical path. This point sums up the hole map. It expects too much out of the player.
What I see as the real goal of each map is not to make it balanced or look pretty but to make it fun and understandable to anyone. This is something Thorium needs to grasp. Map makers can't just assume that when people first fire up their map that they will know exactly were to go. To sum it all up again its not so much that the map is ugly or unbalanced its that its overly complex in terms of what it is asking a first time player or even a returning player to do.
First is Spawn to A or E
In steel its very straight forward and to the point. (pun intended)
However in your map things work very differently.
You have to go though A and C or B and D to get to E. This is not necessarily a bad thing but its more of a nitpick that you have to go a bit out of your way to get to E.
Now back in Steel BLU has capped A and are moving on to B.
You can see that from the flow of the map players are drawn to B or E.
This is where Thorium starts to the problems big time.
After capping A or B the players will naturally want to push up. However, this does not send them to the point they want but rather C or D. Players do this and will keep doing it because the big sign to the point they should be going to is shoved away nowhere to be found.
Meanwhile at steel BLU has capped B.
Team is pushing for C and E at the same time keeping the pressure up on RED.
Now in Thorium BLU has recouped capped A and B and are moving on to C and D.
At this point BLU's resources are spread very thin. They have to walk a good long way to each of the 3 points and keep the pressure up on all of them. Juggling 3 points is hard when they are far away but 3 is a bit nuts.
Aright back to steel were A,B, and C are capped.
Now things are getting hard for BLU not only is D far but RED is breathing down there neck. Most BLU wins happen at this stage. Only about half the time D is ever capped because it is so far away and so close to RED spawn. Were as E is very accessible for ether team.
Now one last look at Thorium. all the points have been capped but E.
A cropped out this one little sliver because thats all the final fight at E is. Right now the player is draw like a bug to a bright light to the most direct path instead of taking the longer but more tactical path. This point sums up the hole map. It expects too much out of the player.
What I see as the real goal of each map is not to make it balanced or look pretty but to make it fun and understandable to anyone. This is something Thorium needs to grasp. Map makers can't just assume that when people first fire up their map that they will know exactly were to go. To sum it all up again its not so much that the map is ugly or unbalanced its that its overly complex in terms of what it is asking a first time player or even a returning player to do.
Heh this page is going to suffer with all these images. Here's the plan:
And here's the progress on it, rotated 90: (A has had more reworking than it looks like)
A and B are much closer together now. The ground between A and B is where red's forward tele exit will be. (forward spawn, forward tele exit... same thing)
A has been reworked to have the point closer to the middle, A will open the gate that used to lead to E, will now lead towards B (they're linear now) B will recieve reworking to cater to the new direction defence is coming from.
Old D (New C) will suffer minor reworking to get it to connect to the old C (New D)
All the points will have a path to E.
Basicly its...... steel.
Steel-pit, another thing to add to the list of not gunna work in TF2 along with TC
And here's the progress on it, rotated 90: (A has had more reworking than it looks like)
A and B are much closer together now. The ground between A and B is where red's forward tele exit will be. (forward spawn, forward tele exit... same thing)
A has been reworked to have the point closer to the middle, A will open the gate that used to lead to E, will now lead towards B (they're linear now) B will recieve reworking to cater to the new direction defence is coming from.
Old D (New C) will suffer minor reworking to get it to connect to the old C (New D)
All the points will have a path to E.
Basicly its...... steel.
Steel-pit, another thing to add to the list of not gunna work in TF2 along with TC
- Apr 19, 2009
- 4,460
- 1,722
To tell you the truth steel type really only works with one layout. It sucks but thats the nature of the game mode. However, this does look much better then the older versions.
Rikka
L5: Dapper Member
- Feb 10, 2009
- 208
- 388
While I agree with all your points, it's worth pointing out that Blu rarely actually goes for a simultaneous offense on two points outside of D and E. If it does happen, either they're lucky and Red is stupid about how they spread their forces or Blue is never able to cap A.
At least that's my personal experience. Only other scenario is that Blu sucks at taking out sentries when one is put up at E during A/E. My point is, Blu likes to attack all together.
At least that's my personal experience. Only other scenario is that Blu sucks at taking out sentries when one is put up at E during A/E. My point is, Blu likes to attack all together.
- Sep 28, 2009
- 3,075
- 2,778
Typically, you need to do some rushing at E to get A because it may end up pulling an engineer away from the defense, and maybe a few others.
Anyway, back on topic, D looks a little remote. It seems like if it unlocks at the same time as C, it'd promote ninja caps and force Red onto a crack defense. Unlocking it after C would be the best path.
Anyway, back on topic, D looks a little remote. It seems like if it unlocks at the same time as C, it'd promote ninja caps and force Red onto a crack defense. Unlocking it after C would be the best path.
I don't like the teleporters to be honest...
And a lot of people I know and in the competitive tf2 scene use fps configs, and with a very popular one I wasn't able to see the signs telling me where the teleporters lead. :O
And a lot of people I know and in the competitive tf2 scene use fps configs, and with a very popular one I wasn't able to see the signs telling me where the teleporters lead. :O
It might be worth having the 5 cp's setup flat on the HUD, like steel. I know that it sorta represents the topographical placement of the points, but it clutters the HUD like that. People can get away with 2 top 2 bottom, but i remember someone with 2 bottom, 2 middle and 1 top and it was just better to have it as 5 horizontally on the HUD.
Alternatively, you could have 4/1, 1/4. But part of the fun of steel is being able to sneak that last point under their noses. Having E seperate on the HUD may emphasise it which is fair enough. I'd be 50/50 for whether or not to do that, but it'll be harder for RED to sneakily capture E first.
Alternatively, you could have 4/1, 1/4. But part of the fun of steel is being able to sneak that last point under their noses. Having E seperate on the HUD may emphasise it which is fair enough. I'd be 50/50 for whether or not to do that, but it'll be harder for RED to sneakily capture E first.
Aha! No sympathy for you there, that's your own fault, cause if you can't see those signs, you can't see ANY of the signs in the map.
With the re-design they'll be all in a line since the map progresses linearly. The possible exception to that would be E which would be above the other four.