[Contest Entry] pl_cashworks

[Chilly]

Looks very nice. I'm looking forward to playing this once you finish tweaking those final things. One thing... on that main hill with all the switchbacks, are snipers going to be overpowered? The attackers will obviously have to deal with demomen on that hill, but you might want to consider putting a full alpine tree right in the middle. I'm not sure the scale of that area, if I'm not seeing alternate paths, or if a full tree would fit thematically, but something to consider.

 

[FLOOR_MASTER]

I'm really looking forward to trying this out. I do hope you've done some playtesting on it; I'd hate for such a unique-looking map to become yet another "eye candy yet completely unplayable" map.

 

[eerieone]

the path is leading downwards, so red will have to deal with blue attacking from the height. i dont think blue will have a disadvantage on that part, given the high ground.
alternate paths will be within the buildings

@floor master: i hope the gameplay will be good, if not, i´ll tweak..
i just didnt want to put out a raw map with dev-textures, because it doesnt provide the correct feeling you need to play a new map willingly

 

[eerieone]

thx for the great comments so far

i changed all the rocks and tracks to no shadow, but the weird really dark shadow at the shack remains

 

[flubber]

Release it or i kill a puppy every five minutes.

 

[eerieone]

Since i work day and night on this map, i have to eat puppies every five minutes to keep my energy up. find other hostages and i might change my mind!

 

[eerieone]

pl_cashworks_a2
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playable version
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http://www.fpsbanana.com/maps/69298
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playable on 77.244.242.100:27700
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[Cerious]

That bridge looks sick, nice work man.

 

[Chilly]

Please remove the bz2 from your file. It makes the map look twice as large than it really is, which will deter people. Server operators that have set up fast download redirects have the ability to make the bz2 themselves.

 

[bob+M|M+]

^ What he said.

you have 2 duplicate files in 1 download right now.


I am really looking forward to this map and it's progress.

 

[Spike]

Me <3 This map

 

[eerieone]

still lots of work to do, those engies need some more secure places to build their gadgets, need to readjust some distances, resulting in sentries being too far away..
gonna move 1st cap further up the track to make it more defendable
etc. etc.

 

[Uriak]

Just tested on yesterday night. Had great fun with sniper both offesively and defensively.

We have been very pleased with the look and "feel" of your map, and people kept looking at the nice displacements, rock placement and buildings. Of course I headshotted them to get them back to harsh reality

Both teams where stopped before the terminus, the first time it was a few meters before the end, and the second round, at the start at the great slope with tiny curves. It overrall felt a bit "open" for long shots, even if fog settings complicated things (don't know if you want it to be detrimental to snipers or not)

It seems the defending team found great positions, but did'nt rely too much on sentries, but rather snipers/demomen/soldiers. Gameplay wise, you should check for many tiny positions where players can be stopped/stuck and clip them. Especially the zone with the angled ladder near the start. We and another played ended getting stuck behind it by going too near the empty space on the left.

But eye candy wise, it was a wonderful and "fresh" surprise

 

[Altaco]

I love the bank vault. Actually gives the map a story and a reason to push leetle cart.

 

[Chilly]

We loaded this onto our server last night and got 10-10 playing the map. It's a beautiful map, but we had to switch the map after one time through. Here's a list of the complaints/issues:

1. FPS drops. You really need to do some optimization, since this was everyone's complaint. I dropped to 25 FPS in the blu spawn for some reason, but in the first outside area I dropped to 50FPS and at the bottom of the hill I dropped to 30FPS. I'm normally around 80FPS. It seems like the bottom of the hill was the worst, with one person dropping from 300FPS to 100FPS. It was unplayable mostly for this reason.

2. Lack of clipping. There were a lot of rocks, edges, corners, etc that people were getting caught on. Make sure you clip the small gaps in the rocks so people don't get stuck. People were also saying they could see out of the map in a few areas, which I assume meant they could get a view down to the bottom of the skybox from the sides of the map. Make sure you clip this areas as well.

3. For gameplay the beginning was pretty good, but we ran into issues at the bottom of the big hill. We found that if a team got 3 sentries up there was no chance for the attackers. I think you need to make an area on the hill where the attackers have some safety in building their ubercharges. I think the lack of alternate routes around that lower corner is also an issue, but being able to build ubercharges safely might fix it.

Hopefully you can resolve these things since it's a very nice looking map. I explained to everyone that it was an alpha, so hopefully they'll be open to trying it again (we had a lot of pubbers on). I think the biggest thing by far is the FPS issue, though.

EDIT: Almost forgot... people were running the wrong way out of the red forward spawn. I'd suggest making the blue arrow red and then switching it to blue after the first checkpoint is reached, similar to how badwater does it. There were at least 5 people that ran the wrong way, myself included.

 

[FLOOR_MASTER]

I couldn't catch you on Steam this morning so I'll just post here while the ideas are still fresh. From numerous 15v15 playtests ysterday:

I'm sure you're aware of the door issues with RED's 1st spawn. Also, after CP1 is taken, RED can still access the room/resupply cabinet. That should definitely be closed off after CP1 is taken.

The bend at the bottom of the curvy "Lombard St" hill is a significant chokepoint. BLU needs another path into the area. One approach would be to add an opening in this area:

... which leads out to this area:

I suspect this would shift the balance too strongly towards BLU, but in the event that that occurs, you can bring the exit down one level lower so that it's accessible to RED too. I'd start with the higher exit and take it from there.

This platform is begging for some windows to give it some actual utility. At the far end of the platform, some props are needed to block off the edge of the map:

This bend is by far the most significant chokepoint and an alternate path is needed:

This is the most obvious idea for a new path. I would recommend a one-way door at the location of the indicated "new door":

Near the final point, these beams need to be clipped to prevent RED from camping the doorway:

Also, as we discussed, I'd recommend slowing the cart down to normal speed and compensating for it with additional time (if needed).

I wasn't paying too much attention to respawn times, but I suspect work is needed there too.

Optimization is a huge concern, so I hope you can focus improving framerates as well.

Keep up the great work!

 

[Chilly]

I have to say I agree completely and exactly with everything floor_master said, including his proposed solutions.

I also forgot to mention: that hill is awesome fun for the defense... being able to sticky jump up behind the enemy makes for some good laughs.

 

[NoHeroes]

Floormaster hit the nail on the head on virtually every point. I didn't see it mentioned, but when being push/near the cart, and getting touched/stopped by an opposing player, both players freeze up, unable to move until one is killed (not sure if that is specific to your map, or a result of the latest valve update).

At any rate...once you've got teh next version with the bug fixes ready, feel free to contact me, and I'll setup a dedicated 32/32 server for it (I have one slot available on my server for a new map, and I'd like it to be yours).

 

[eerieone]

wow mates, you are great, thx for the great feedback
been unavailable the last days (gf birthday, low bandwidth etc. , but i´m right back on track and will implement all the changes mentioned

the red forward spawn bugging out resulted by splitting the door-trigger in two.
first it was one trigger, but a player was stuck in there, after 1cp was taken and the trigger deactivated. any ideas?

i´m still a bit noobish on the fps-optimization issue, so i will have to look deeply into that issue
the framerate dropping in the 1st sector might be the lack of professional work on the buildings.
i will rebuild them from scratch, hoping for further improvement.
but i hope you dont mind me posting here with screenshots asking for some experienced knowledge on hint-brushes and areaportals


just a last question:
how about the serpentine hill? i didn´t see much action there, so i plan to move the 2nd cp nearer to the big stone-formation at the U-turn, so it becomes an area worth fighting for. good idea?

 

[MangyCarface]

Forward spawn: Make two triggers. One only on the inside of the door, set it to start disabled. Give it the same parameters as the other trigger but a different name. On the CP's capture, disable the old trigger, enable the new, and send an Open command to the door.

Optimization for scrubs:
1. Nodraw. Make every face a player can't see nodraw. Remember that func_details do not remove their hidden faces automatically, so if you have a T section of detail, you'd have to nodraw the top of the | part manually
2. Area portals. Every "room" you have should be area portalled; remember for them to work right, every 'hole' out of the room has to be sealed with an area portal.
3. Draw distances. Set it automatically in the "Map Properties" or per prop; this makes it so far away props are not drawn, and you can adjust this manually to help performance.
4. Func_lod-just like func_detail, but draw distances for it can be specified like above.