[Contest Entry] pl_cashworks

[MangyCarface]

What I do before I release a beta, is release a beta candidate (pl_cashworks_bc1) to a very small audience. You can also post it on tf2maps and ask for feedback only on these issues. However if you don't feel it's invasive I can look directly at your vmf and try to provide as much help as possible, either by direct involvement (though I can really understand if you want all the brushwork to be your own, I kinda feel the same way) or by helping you along.

 

[eerieone]

i don´t think it´s invasive, i´ll be glad if you could take a look at my sloppy work, so i can see first hand, how it should have been done better

i´ll put up the vmf and bsp within the hour and send you the links
feel free to do your magic, with every means neccessary

thx m8

 

[Baysin]

One little thing I found while playing tonight. When attacking the last point, blue can come out over a little walkway over the 3rd point. It's possible to get stuck if you fall off the walkway to the left, between a stack of wood and the wall. Screenshot included for clarification. Demos and soldiers can blast their way out, anyone else has to suicide.

 

[eerieone]

I believe i got a hold on the teleporter-self-destruction problematic

i had several brushes tied into one func-lod, if a teleporter-exit happens to be build inside the cube of the grouped brushes, it will self-destruct. turning every single brush one by one to func_lod seems to solve the problem so far.

bah, lots of testing until i got hold of that problem, nearly went nuts figuring out.
isolated the room where it happens and tried around

 

[Baysin]

Wow, interesting. I've noticed exploding teleporters on many maps, including this one. It always seemed like it only happened in specific locations, but I never understood why. Sounds like I finally have an answer!

 

[Nineaxis]

Teleporters destroy themselves if they are in placed that the game decides at tele-time that making a player exit would get them stuck or be otherwise problematic, whereas while building them it just checks that there is enough room for a teleporter.

 

[eerieone]

for me somehow, placing them into a cluster of several func_lod made mine explode
previous to checking that, i tried to figure out what could hinder them, no objects were involved as cause of the self-destruct

 

[Baysin]

Well, if that's true, Nineaxis, then it sounds like maybe what's actually happening is that when the game makes the second check at teleport time, the game is treating the entire func_lod like the whole area is a physical object rather than a grouping of objects, and popping the tele because it doesn't think there's gonna be room for the player. I thought, however, that teleporters actually took up more space than a player? Does the check made at teleport time work differently than the check at build time? Just curious, that's not really related to the thread I guess, sorry.

 

[Nineaxis]

That's what I'm saying, at build time it checks there is room for the teleporter (which is 80 or so units tall to make sure a player can come out standing up), but it treats the space around it differently at tele-time, checking for entities and stuff (so you don't end up inside a payload cart or something weird, which obviously "weren't there" when you built it)

 

[flubber]

Just updated heatmaps for cashworks : http://psychostats.canardplus.com/mapheat.php?id=157

Edit : looking at it it seems not to be sync with the image, i ll try to fix it today.

 

[Tinker]

This is my favourite payload fr the contest and I really like the map layout. However, a few things:

- It might be me, but the lightning seems rather bland, or weird, or whatever. The colours of the map don't seem so vivid.

- The red spawn is REALLY close to the final terminus - as in, almost no walk time at all - which makes it hard to cap, even more so since the last area is around a corner.

- I've heard players complain about how the map isn't very good for snipers, as it focuses on vertical control. I myself have not found much problems with this.

- Right of the first blu spawn (looking for red's side) there seems to be a corner where spies and pyros could hide. However, there is an invisible wall or something there. Is that intended?

Just a few things here Overall, great job, it's very enjoyable for every class and it looks awesome. Keep up the good work!

 

[eerieone]

the map was previously compiled without hdr, so the color intensity doesn´t change much on the surfaces, beta1 will have that, just working out the hdr compile-kinks
i closed off the first nearest door to red spawn at last point, giving them some more meters to run
the unaccessable corner was corrected
snipers are always complaining, when i play sniper, i have a blast, they just need to adjust, once you make a map good for snipers, everybody else´s fun goes downhill

thx

 

[Ida]

- The red spawn is REALLY close to the final terminus - as in, almost no walk time at all - which makes it hard to cap, even more so since the last area is around a corner.

I actually think that's ok. From my experience, the last cap is usually easy enough to cap. When we're on the subject of the final cap: I find it a bit awkward to be a Spy in this area - expanding areas backwards, every so slightly behind wherever RED hangs out is usually a good thing. So, just a little pocket to give attacking Spies some breathing room would be good around here.

A thing I particularily dislike as an Engineer on BLU is that the spawn changes with every cap. It's not necessary, it just forces me to rebuild my teleporter over and over again. Just look at Badwater, where BLU starts out in one spawn, and doesn't get a forward spawn until the second-to-last cap is taken. The way you're doing it, the walk is so short that BLU Engineers are almost obsolete. The constant spawn changes for RED is annoying too, but less so since RED Engineers need teleporters slightly less.

 

[Tinker]

the map was previously compiled without hdr, so the color intensity doesn´t change much on the surfaces, beta1 will have that, just working out the hdr compile-kinks
i closed off the first nearest door to red spawn at last point, giving them some more meters to run
the unaccessable corner was corrected
snipers are always complaining, when i play sniper, i have a blast, they just need to adjust, once you make a map good for snipers, everybody else´s fun goes downhill

thx

Haha, I guess you're right. Looking forward to your next release

 

[eerieone]

PL_CASHWORKS_B1 out

Download

__________________
PL_CASHWORKS_B1

FIXES:
* HDR available
* Improved Bankvault Model/Animation/Texture
* Addad valve´s explosions to the scene (parts hanging midair are due to the fact that its preanimated)
* Fixed the Teleport-Self-Destruct problem, if it still happens, tell me where plz
* Changed Timer allowing to go above 10 mins playtime on the clock
* Further optimization
* General Clipping improvement
* Pimped the skybox
* Changed rocktexture
* Added Red Logo Spray
First Section:
* Added platform right side before the cp
* Added 2 small shack on left side behind house
* Adjusted view distances
Second Section:
* Narrowed down the platform protecting the cp, added small platform at middle pillar as sentryposition and protection for blu
* Remodelled the serpentines, much smoother now
* Simple changes at houses at bottom
Third Section:
* Removed invisible stair-clipping
4th and Final:
* Right side bottom floor door is now opening both ways
* Right side, platform, added some cover, medipack is now medium
* Right side red spawn is now a little more seperated
* added roofstructure to left side of bankvault
* added large box to the balcony over the pit for giving blu a more advanced sentryposition
* made it harder to camp the bridge
* changed gold-texture

etc....

ToDo:
Texture improvement/alignment, Track less bumpy, Further improve Skybox, probably some clipping, any exploit you sneaky engis,demos and snipers find... whatever you see, report plz








more images to come, but i´m tired right now... really really tired

 

[PMAvers]

It's looking good. :thumbup:

I discovered a spot where I can get stuck as a Scout, though. It's on those new "platforms" on the rock pile at B, where if you try to jump around through to the "right" of them (coming from the defender's side), you can get wedged in there by that vertical beam, and can't jump at all. Gotta explode your way out.

(If need be I can go back in and get a screenshot of the place for you.)

EDIT: Huh, had one already.

See the blood splatters on the beam? That's where.

 

[FLOOR_MASTER]

We ran b1 @ 15v15 a few times. I've also swapped it in a5's place in our rotation. The gameplay is virtually identical to a5, which is a good thing. There is one key exception - the new sentry position added near point 1 appears to be very unbalanced in favor of RED. A sentry on that platform along with the side platform (under the "04" decal), combined with 15 RED players protecting that area cannot be stopped. I'd recommend making the platform nobuild or somehow restricting access to the platform. I would caution against changing the height of the platform, since it's high enough to provide some protection against a sentry on the "04" platform but low enough to allow stickies to reach the "04" platform. You might consider making the platform "thinner" so that it makes sense that it's nobuild.

Players definitely noticed the work put into optimization, so that effort paid off!

This is the sort of map that has vastly different gameplay with a small number of players vs a full server. Naturally, I advocate tuning maps for the latter group. I'm very glad you've taken my suggestions through the alpha stages of the map and done so in a timely manner. Cashworks has evolved into an incredibly fun map that's well-liked by our players.

 

[Baysin]

I keep on liking this map. Thank you for smoothing out the switchbacks. It had been a bit tricky to run along that section of the track, as you'd get stuck in spots and have to move around patches of ground, but now it's just fine. The additional cover locations are interesting, I'm keen to see how they work out in normal gameplay. One little, teeny, purely cosmetic thing... at the end of the ledge over the switchback area, near the 2nd point, you've got a wood stack prop on end. To me that just stuck out as looking odd... wood stacked up on end like that's going to be prone to falling unless it's in some sort of rack made for the purpose.

As for the area near the 2nd point where you were getting stuck, PMAvers, I jumped around all over in that area and couldn't get myself stuck anywhere. I'm not doubting your word, I'm just saying maybe it's a pretty unlikely thing to have happen. Or else maybe my scout jumping skillz aren't 1337 enough

 

[PMAvers]

Heh, it's possible it's just me, and I'm just failing hardcore at a easy jump. I recorded a demo of myself getting stuck there, if it helps any.

 

[HojoTheGreat]

Though I've been following the map's progress, I've never actually played it. I just did a run through of it alone though and honestly man, fanTASTIC! I love your detail work and you've included so many ways of getting around the map it's crazy. I also took the opportunity to take some screenshots of some things of note, mostly nitpicky details that don't affect gameplay.

First of all, I feel you should extend the Open triggers for most of the doors. One in particular I kept getting caught on was near the final point, the small gate door (to be fair I was playing as a scout, but regardless Another 4-8 units couldn't hurt).

Also it's not necessary, but for players' convenience it would be a good idea to Player Clip all of the door frames. It's really easy to get caught on most of them, and there it can be frustrating when you're trying to make an escape or get around quickly. Watch out for those Frames for the sliding gate doors.

There were a couple places that looked like you could go to (like little nooks to crouch under) that were clipped off. Again, this is small, but consider adding another board of wood or something to make these places look more inaccessible to avoid players getting confused.

This hallway in the last courtyard leads to a dead end. I don't know if you intended for this, but I think placing a pickup in here would at least make it worth going into. Otherwise it's just a waste beyond giving spied a place to hide, but new players will get in trouble here.

Small prop fade distance problem here, nothing serious.

Lastly, at least as a scout you can get to this plank and jump out into the skybox (in the opposite direction of the screenshot), passed the death trigger. This should probably be clipped off.