Bomb Factory a7

[The_Ulf]

The updates from the previous version is great. Now that more people on my server know what to do, the matches are going better. With an updates HUD so there wasn't as much of a learning curve, you would be in great shape. It also might be helpful to add the point letters to the HUD if you had that in mind.

That's good to hear since I already have that set up and in line for a5! Thanks again for the playtests, I've been gleaning so much helpful data from them.

 

[captainAngry]

 

[The_Ulf]

So...

close...

to...

a5...

can taste it... losing waaay to much sleep... working on it...

under impression can taste progress...

zzz...

Seriously though, I'm not dead yet and a5 - the biggest, most comprehensive update I've undertaken so far - is almost through.

Bomb Factory now takes advantage of the hybrid HUD Valve graciously added for us folks as well as a bum-load (ok, not that many - just a few in the HUD and one in each spawn room) of custom textures to make the map more readable/learnable. Can't wait to finish off the last bits of light/texture/cubemaps/pakRat'ing to get this stupidly overdue build released!

Maybe I'll even be able to find a chance to play this version! (amazingly, I have not been able to play my own map yet, at all - huge thanks though to all of the tf2maps.net gang, Riuthamus, the awesome folks over at calculatedChaos and Captain Angry for the playtesting, feedback and demos)

 

[riuthamus]

Im very excited to test this and cant wait to have it on rotation! Good luck and keep up the great work.

 

[The_Ulf]

KABOOM! (alpha 5 is out)

(I am unconscious)

 

[captainAngry]

Awesome, super excited for the HUD update.

 

[riuthamus]

Sadly, the icons for the hud do not seem to be packed correctly. Since... they do not show up. Other then that, it was a very enjoyable and easy to follow map. Most people didnt get lost and they certainly welcomed the idea of it. Later today when our server is busy with "brothers" ill have them try it out and link the video of our playtest and their thoughts.

 

[Washipato]

Looks really fun. Keep up the good work!

 

[The_Ulf]

Sadly, the icons for the hud do not seem to be packed correctly.

Yup - just confirmed it myself. Knew I'd forget at least something :blushing:. Re-pak'ing as we speak - I'll update here once the link points to the correctly bundled file (it'll still be a5, so please make sure to delete the borked one - sorry about that).

 

[The_Ulf]

OK! The hopefully ready a5 is fully out, complete with new HUD icons! Read the changlelog and known issues posts for more info and enjoy!

I'm gonna actually try to play this version!

The new HUD -

In this example, the Red team has destroyed Blu's point A while the Blu's have taken Red C and have dropped the intel on Red A, threatening to demolish it if they can defend it there for 25 more seconds.

 

[Peterm]

looks very good no comment though soz

 

[bubbabyte]

Great Map Ulf.. it's one of our favorites on the apex-games.net server, we play it all the time.

Some feedback..

The New update v5 is nice, however after being used to v4a it was hard getting used to. The map DID need to be a bit smaller, but it seems a bit crowded now IMO. During playtesting of 4a one of the coolest things about it was that it took about 15 seconds to get from one cp to the other. So now after testing v5 a bit it seems as though all you really need to do is hop around anywhere in the opposite base and when the time hits like 5 seconds, you can most likely reach any point you want.
Also, i really miss the lighting that was in 4a. I dont know much about hammer or the technical terms but the lighting you had along the walls in 4a was beautiful, even with dev textures.
I do like where the spawn is now, it makes it much easier to get out of the spawn and get the job done quickly.
I like the "C" cap point, overall it has a much better feel to it and should be a little easier to defend now. One bug however is that if you jump in behind one of the rockets, you get stuck there and so does the case and it will blow up that point, so that could be used as an exploit for point "C".
I love the hud, the flashing light on the intel and being able to tell where the case is.
The middle area is still tough for me to get used to, because even with dev textures the middle area in 4a was beautiful but was confusing for new players. The update made things a little easier, however i just feel like it needs something, i just don't know what.

Overall: IMO this is a nice update, everyone seemed to enjoy it and things were a little easier for new players to understand, however as i said earlier everyone feels it's just a little too cramped. I also love the alternate routes, great idea. Amazing concept, amazing map.

Bugs: being able to get behind rockets at C. Getting Locked into the Middle Intel spawn?? Not sure if it's a bug, but people did not like this at all, it was much better when it killed people who got stuck.

My suggestions: I would make the space between the 3 cap points a little wider so they are not SO easy to access. Having someone make a custom intel model (like premuda, but a bomb of sorts) would be awesome, but not needed. I also think the BIG opening at the top of C should have glass, so you should be forced to come thru doors, side vent or small windows. I think the radius of the bomb explosion should be how it was in version 4a, it's too wide now, as i said you can blow up C when the case is stuck behind the rocket. I think the middle area should be grey again instead of multicolored, with maybe colored lights above the exits or something. Everyone really missed the grey building with the nice lighting.


We will continue to playtest it, because we all love it, so i'll post more feedback as i get it.

 

[bubbabyte]

Another request by people in the server is to remove the Arrow at the bottom of the hud which points to the intel holder and instead add a larger trail (KTF style) to the intel holder. One of the big things that people loved/hated about 4a was that you didn't know where the intel was, which was exciting because it was like hide and seek, however i understand that some people were confused. So maybe a large trail would be a little more subtle then an arrow telling exactly where he is.

 

[The_Ulf]

Excellent feedback already! Thanks so much Riuthamus for the impromtu playtest, and thanks bubbabyte for fantastic evaluation of the update!

The map DID need to be a bit smaller, but it seems a bit crowded now IMO. During playtesting of 4a one of the coolest things about it was that it took about 15 seconds to get from one cp to the other. So now after testing v5 a bit it seems as though all you really need to do is hop around anywhere in the opposite base and when the time hits like 5 seconds, you can most likely reach any point you want.

My suggestions: I would make the space between the 3 cap points a little wider so they are not SO easy to access.

Yeah - I've gone and over-corrected it into a bit of a choke-fest. :mellow:
I've started planning some layout revision - particularly for the middle. I think I am going to try to spread A and B away from each other and open up the area between the front of A, B and Gray.

The middle area is still tough for me to get used to, because even with dev textures the middle area in 4a was beautiful but was confusing for new players. The update made things a little easier, however i just feel like it needs something, i just don't know what.

Yeah - I don't particularly like the new middle either. It seems the routes to the second floor are awkward and the new intel spawn didn't address the issue of new players not immediately recognizing it for what it was. I'm going to try moving the Intel to the first floor and turning the second floor more into Battlements that overlook it and perhaps holding the flag doors shut for a short bit of time after the flag returns to give players a chance to fight over it before someone snatches it.

Also, i really miss the lighting that was in 4a. I dont know much about hammer or the technical terms but the lighting you had along the walls in 4a was beautiful, even with dev textures.

Glad you did and don't worry - it'll be back. Just the way I did it is a little annoying to set up, particularly if the layout has to be shifted down the road.

Also - I'd partially been planning this but today's playtesting made it clear it was necessary - I'm going to be adding additional spotlights and highlighting to all the control points to emphasize their presence, with additional dynamic Hazard lights that will turn on when the point is threatened.

One bug however is that if you jump in behind one of the rockets, you get stuck there and so does the case and it will blow up that point, so that could be used as an exploit for point "C".

Good catch - I'll address that ASAP.

Getting Locked into the Middle Intel spawn?? Not sure if it's a bug, but people did not like this at all, it was much better when it killed people who got stuck.

Whoops - didn't re-implement that fix from the old intel spawn room. :facepalm: That'll be back with the new mid layout.

I think the middle area should be grey again instead of multicolored, with maybe colored lights above the exits or something. Everyone really missed the grey building with the nice lighting.

Yeah, those dev textures on the floors are mostly for me to tell which side of the second floor I'm working on - I try to make it more gray and subtle.

Thanks so much, again!

 

[The_Ulf]

Another request by people in the server is to remove the Arrow at the bottom of the hud which points to the intel holder and instead add a larger trail (KTF style) to the intel holder. One of the big things that people loved/hated about 4a was that you didn't know where the intel was, which was exciting because it was like hide and seek, however i understand that some people were confused. So maybe a large trail would be a little more subtle then an arrow telling exactly where he is.

I think the CTF arrow is here to stay - one of the things I belatedly realized about a4a is that the CP HUD gives the flag-carrier no visual indication that they are holding the flag. I can't get that briefcase on-screen overlay without the arrow, but I wouldn't worry too much about being able to hide - you're enemies are only given a general lateral direction.

 

[bubbabyte]

Good Stuff. Can't wait for the next update, it's one of the server's most played maps and everyone loves it. I personally think it's a really great concept and very well implemented. I think spreading A and B would work, it is a bit of a choke point. One thing i noticed after playing for a while was that there is no good route for getting from spawn (C) to (B). If you are a scout you can jump out the window, but if not you have to go down the stairs, out the front door, and around the building to get into (B). You may want to add a small door on the side of B that faces C. Again, great work Ulf.

 

[bubbabyte]

Found another bug for you after playing tonight. Sorry forgot to take a screenshot, but hopefully you can understand it. The area between the train and the 2nd level of "B" you can build things in the air. Basically just stand on top of the train and try to build stuff in the air facing your spawn. Also, regarding it being a chokefest, the area between the trains and the middle section is soo small, as soon as you come out of the doors in the middle area you're running into a train, it's a really tight squeeze, but i'm sure you already knew that.

 

[H-land]

Well, after having just played this map for the first time, I've got to say that it's interesting. The idea of bombing points is rather unique, and most of the server seemed to be, ahem, having a blast. There are numerous things that I would change about the map, however:
Firstly, the concrete slabs in the factory itself, the ones with the movable stair props from Well. While you can double or crouch jump onto them, it's tough to do in a pinch, and I don't see why you should have to. I would propose adding stairs to the concrete slab in order to aid the mobility of non-double jumping classes.
Secondly, I had no idea where the points were for the longest time, as while the points themselves are labeled and clearly visible in the HUD (which is excellent, by the by), there are no signs pointing towards them. This hurts new players on both offense and defense, who will have a harder time figuring out where to go. The solution? Directional signage.
A third order to attend to is simply the grate door below the spawn's staircase. I always feel like I should be using this door, but I can't ever go through from the inside. I'm not sure how one would best address this, as honestly, I never saw the grate below the stairwell used at all, so I might propose removing this path completely. To allow people who have fallen into the pit of bombed point A, I would suggest terraced or sloped sides to the hole.
Fourthly and finally, I would suggest placing more health and ammo in the subfloor of the factory, as overlooking the soldiers and demomen who insisted on destroying everything that I made, I had trouble creating a base down below because there was no metal. (Except when I killed the demoman, and then that still wasn't enough for anything more than a new baby sentry.)

 

[Shmitz]

Oh man this was a lot of fun.

I know a couple people suggested nerfing the sentry spot up by the intel chamber, but I actually think it's really balanced. From my end, I had enough close calls with soldiers and heavies that if they had at any point had a medic healing them, they would have destroyed my setup easily. I think the fact that I held out so long was just due to the other team not employing any counter classes. As soon as a demo and spy showed up, everything died.

To add to that, even though I prevented the other team from grabbing the intel immediately, they could still steal it by killing the carrier, and then easily avoid the sentry by any of the other routes through the building.

 

[The_Ulf]

The idea of bombing points is rather unique, and most of the server seemed to be, ahem, having a blast.

:O

The concrete slabs in the factory itself, the ones with the movable stair props from Well. While you can double or crouch jump onto them, it's tough to do in a pinch, and I don't see why you should have to. I would propose adding stairs to the concrete slab in order to aid the mobility of non-double jumping classes.

Yeah, I'm going to revise the whole mid (dunno if that slab will even remain, but there will be stairs if it is still there).

Secondly, I had no idea where the points were for the longest time, as while the points themselves are labeled and clearly visible in the HUD (which is excellent, by the by), there are no signs pointing towards them. This hurts new players on both offense and defense, who will have a harder time figuring out where to go. The solution? Directional signage.

Good call - I'll be adding more arrows with letters for the next version in addition to lights shining down on each point to highlight them better and dynamic hazard lights that turn on when the point is threatened.

A third order to attend to is simply the grate door below the spawn's staircase. I always feel like I should be using this door, but I can't ever go through from the inside. I'm not sure how one would best address this, as honestly, I never saw the grate below the stairwell used at all, so I might propose removing this path completely. To allow people who have fallen into the pit of bombed point A, I would suggest terraced or sloped sides to the hole.

The path you've found there is the alternate route to 'C' that opens up when 'A' is destroyed. The idea there is that it's a maintenance tunnel, along which the rocket fuel lines run (gotta add those back in). I'm working on a couple of custom overlays/objects that will say "Maintenance" and "No Admittance" to make it more clear that you're on the wrong end of a one-way route there (it is totally not clear enough yet, I've gotta make that less confusing for people learning the layout).

Fourthly and finally, I would suggest placing more health and ammo in the subfloor of the factory

Sounds good - I'm still learning how to think about health and ammo placement and it looks like I'll certainly be adding more to the ground floor (particularly with the flag moving down there for the next version) and in the basement.