[BETA]Dom_Complex

l3eeron

L8: Fancy Shmancy Member
Jan 4, 2008
593
88
This map is going to pure mayhem on a 32 man server!

I saw it for the first time last night....

can't wait to run it on my servers :D
 

kimangroo

L3: Member
Mar 15, 2008
111
6
Ok just played this for half an hour or so on the playtest. My impressions:

Love the gameplay type, it works really well and makes for a very frantic, hectic action filled game. Hoping for some more DOM type maps in the future.

As I played this for the first time, layout was bound to be confusing. It was. It didn't matter too much because where ever I was, I was only 30 seconds away from some action somewhere. The problem is though that you would get warning alerts about cps being captured, but I had no idea where to go. Having 7 different icons for cps is also very confusing. Having something like A1, B1, C1, A2, B2, C2 and X for the central point might be easier to understand. Then very clear signs with arrows pointing from each cp to the next would help a lot. I get the feeling that with this gameplay type, a very simple layout with very distinctive and symmetrical cps would be best. Of course I've only played this map once, so I'm sure it would make more sense in time.

As for specifics, I didn't like the water below one of the cps very much. If you fell into it, you were basically dead as there is only the platform lift as an exit. Would be nice if there was some underwater tunnel escape route.

Also afaict players would spawn right next to/near cps at times. Think it would be better if the spawn points associated to cps were in seperate rooms to the cps. It's not much fun spawning and being blown up instantly. Or have a bunch of people spawn on top of you when you're not expecting it.

Only had a short playtest so can't think of anything else right now. Overall it was great and the most fun map I played tonight. Nice job!
 

TheBladeRoden

L420: High Member
Oct 26, 2007
491
168
Thanks for the input, other things I am looking for is feedback on the setup timer and health and ammo placement.
 

ChronoTriggerFan

L420: High Member
Feb 3, 2008
434
73
Regarding the setup timers, I think they should be a tad bit shorter. This way, a whole team can't spread out to 5+ capture points. when that happens, petty much everyone is on a capture point and won't bother attacking any other capture points, which leads to an unfair advantage at the beginning.

With ammo and health, there needs to be more. With this map type, attacks come sporadically and quickly. I found that when defending a point, I ran out of ammo FAST, and there was probably only one low health and ammo container on each section, so I had to leave an scavenge the less used walkways for ammo.
 

TheDarkerSideofYourShadow

L10: Glamorous Member
Apr 12, 2008
792
286
Couple of things from today:

The vent leading away to from the Atrium, which you can stand full up in, then shrinks to crouch, and it seems like you have to stay crouched for a while. idk, just bugged me a little.

The other thing is the glass texture at the bridges, almost blew myself up on it because I didn't realize it was glass.

And then he thingy below the floor here.
dom_complex_b40000.jpg
 

YM

LVL100 YM
aa
Dec 5, 2007
7,135
6,056
The other thing is the glass texture at the bridges, almost blew myself up on it because I didn't realize it was glass.
It never ceases to amaze me how many players attempt to shoot though glass...

Well I've not yet played _b4 but I will tonight and I have high expectations, I love this map and am really looking forward to the new details you've got.
Kimangroo - I learnt the layout of this map the first few times I played but was still slightly confused by it, then the cpature point logos came and everything was brilliant :D If you add a few wall signs here and there with the same logos that would help players further but I don't really think it needs it

there are setup timers now!?!? :angry: I can't see how that will help gameplay, but I'll keep an open mind
 

ryodoan

Resident Bum
Nov 2, 2007
409
117
The setup timers are nice, they give everyone a chance to load the game before the gameplay actually starts.
 

TheDarkerSideofYourShadow

L10: Glamorous Member
Apr 12, 2008
792
286
It never ceases to amaze me how many players attempt to shoot though glass...

Heh, Youme, I had seen someone standing there in an earlier round, firing down at us, so I tried the same. Its breakable glass, I just didn't realize it was there until a rocket went off in my face :blink:
 

YM

LVL100 YM
aa
Dec 5, 2007
7,135
6,056
well I saw the breakable glass in the same circumstances you did and I realised it was there so :p

Loving the new details they make it really awesome. I can't say I liked the startup timer, it feels like a lost cause because players can still attack each other in it and its just a mess, it was far better without it imo.

You've got the problem with the holograms being visible below the cap points as DSOYS said (can a mod shorten his name for us?) and one area (pictured) felt like you could jump over the railing into the room beyond, you need just a little bit more of a visual disconnection between play area and non play area
domcomplexb40000ou1.jpg

Epic, now that other guy is making a map with your prefab I love you even more, you've made in my opinion the only custom gametype that even remotely works.

GOOD WORK!
 

Colt Seavers

L6: Sharp Member
Dec 30, 2007
288
82
i have no problem finding my way about - simply cos i've played it since you started developing it. i love it - its an awesome gameplay style which makes a genuine change of pace and i can recount many many epic battles on 12v12 in the Playground.

today i was genuinely impressed by the improvements you've made - love new glass bits and everthing is generally looking much purdier. agree with Youme on the set up - confused me - maybe i'll get used to it. i know it allows all to join the server - but that's being pessimistic - once all have played once they'll join as quick as anyone and the frantic nature of the map lends itself to being thrown in there.
 

ryodoan

Resident Bum
Nov 2, 2007
409
117
My only complaint is a personal one, this map is kinda crappy for sentries due to its fast gamepace and the quick point turnover. Nobody really holds a point long enough for me to get set up, and I think some recent changes made Middle point overlook area not as easily held by a sentry.

If you review the Source TV files I am sure you will see my one attempt, and several other peoples attempts to set up a sentry over the middle point and the subsequent failures.
 

l3eeron

L8: Fancy Shmancy Member
Jan 4, 2008
593
88
Ya it could use some kind of incentive for engineers. Def need to have a good defendable perch or ledge at the 1st/last CPs. Maybe even 1 for each side on that middle point too.

It kind of ends up, us chasing each other around in circles. If an engy could get a foot hold on that middle it would give people a way to win (or loose).

I really want to see a team actually get dominated. Where everyone gets killed after they loose all their CPs. Without a good SG up somewhere I think it's going to be real hard.


Also, is this map available for public play? We're getting our "payload" server ready over at the ville.... wanted to toss this map on until goldrush comes out. Is that cool?


PS - I really like the change in how the map starts.... you can get out to the CP's before the setup timer unlocks the CPs. Good idea for a nice change :D
 
Dec 25, 2007
566
439
The map is playing really well. I'm no longer getting lost, because I've played on it enough now, and it's quite tight. It's a great map for scouts and soldiers; less good for most other classes I've found. I actually significantly beat my previous top points, captures, and kills for soldier and scout on this map, because it's quite easy to stay alive. This seems to be more of an issue with the domination mode though; I noticed that those classes seemed to be very good on bootcamp as well.

So my only remaining complaints about the map are:

1. I still don't like the doors; they're not very TF2ish, and definitely a barrier for new players; also, all of them lead into dead-end health/ammo closets except for the one by the water CP. If they were consistently closets I think they would be more acceptable. Also the fact that you can build sentries behind them that can still shoot out is not nice, but since engineers have such a hard time otherwise on this map we might let that pass :D

2. The vent. It's the only place you actually have to crawl; and the rest of the map is so fast-paced, that that feels really slow. Since part of the vent is already high enough to walk through, couldn't you make the rest of it that little bit higher?
 

Narkissus

L5: Dapper Member
Jan 22, 2008
228
9
The map is playing really well. I'm no longer getting lost, because I've played on it enough now, and it's quite tight. It's a great map for scouts and soldiers; less good for most other classes I've found. I actually significantly beat my previous top points, captures, and kills for soldier and scout on this map, because it's quite easy to stay alive. This seems to be more of an issue with the domination mode though; I noticed that those classes seemed to be very good on bootcamp as well.

So my only remaining complaints about the map are:

1. I still don't like the doors; they're not very TF2ish, and definitely a barrier for new players; also, all of them lead into dead-end health/ammo closets except for the one by the water CP. If they were consistently closets I think they would be more acceptable. Also the fact that you can build sentries behind them that can still shoot out is not nice, but since engineers have such a hard time otherwise on this map we might let that pass :D

2. The vent. It's the only place you actually have to crawl; and the rest of the map is so fast-paced, that that feels really slow. Since part of the vent is already high enough to walk through, couldn't you make the rest of it that little bit higher?


I think those points you talked about are what actually make this map "complex" of perfect dark and goldeneye fame, without those it would not be so nostalgic, i personally really like those parts of the map because i had so much fun before on complex in the other games. And without the little touches it wouldnt be the same.
 

ryodoan

Resident Bum
Nov 2, 2007
409
117
as for the comment about Soldiers / Scouts but no other class, I have to say that I had lots of fun on Bootcamp as an engineer just because since the map was bigger and there were so many more routes, a single sentry could really have fun building sentries on different points to hold people up.

I think complex is smaller than Bootcamp with fewer routes and more open capture points making it harder to hold onto the points and making for faster game play.
 
Dec 25, 2007
566
439
I think those points you talked about are what actually make this map "complex" of perfect dark and goldeneye fame, without those it would not be so nostalgic, i personally really like those parts of the map because i had so much fun before on complex in the other games. And without the little touches it wouldnt be the same.
Of course, but I (and no doubt many other TF2 players) never played goldeneye; so my view of the map is based on how it plays now, with no rose-colored nostalgic glasses :p
 

YM

LVL100 YM
aa
Dec 5, 2007
7,135
6,056
Indeed I base all opinions nostalgia free, although I have played this map in perfect dark I believe, maybe goldeneye as well, I have no recolection of it what so ever.
So my nostalgia free reaction to this map is: I freaking love it!!!
 

TheDarkerSideofYourShadow

L10: Glamorous Member
Apr 12, 2008
792
286
well I saw the breakable glass in the same circumstances you did and I realised it was there so :p

Therefore the reason is that I am, in fact, retarded. As such, my suggestion should be ignored.

You've got the problem with the holograms being visible below the cap points as DSOYS said (can a mod shorten his name for us?)

Yes, sadly I've had comments about the name in game. I've been using it since Natural Selection came out. Prior to that I was D^3, which was short for D-Day Dan. Funny, I switched from a ridiculously short name to a horribly long one.
 

TheBladeRoden

L420: High Member
Oct 26, 2007
491
168
The purpose of the setup timer was to allow classes like Heavies and Engineers to move out to CP's and set up shop before the otherwise scout rush.

I've only played a couple games that resulted in the jailbreak aspect coming into play. But it seems to happen with more frequency in bootcamp. So I'm guessing the only way I can affect those is to either scale the level up even more or start fiddling with the spawn times.

And yes I could use complex on all the servers I can get.

And the point of the crouchy vents was to keep the travel time of the 3 paths between D and B roughly equal.
 
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