Gameday gameday gameday!
- Thread starter Micnax
- Start date
Warren Moonbeam
L1: Registered
- Mar 12, 2011
- 24
- 2
This map is my favorite CTF map. Meaning better than 2fort. It is very aggressive and prevents stalemates or turtling, yet still gives teams plenty of room to defend.
Overall, a superb map. I hope it sees more love.
Overall, a superb map. I hope it sees more love.
Dude, the only thing worse than 2fort in this site (in terms of layout, not detailing - the guy who detailed 2fort is the master of detailing) are my maps.
Hey man, really enjoyed playing Arroyo on Sunday! Really great map and I'm working on getting it on one of the servers I regular.
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This feels extremely easy and brief. Its very small. Often when I get to the intelligence, 2 other teammates arrive from other directions. Then when coming back the opposing team has the intelligence as well. However, it looks beautiful and its a great theme.
There is a lot of action in the center, but you can easily avoid the action with the side routes. There are too many paths. Whoever is the quickest will get the intelligence and be back within a minute and no challenge.
Perhaps in the future make sentry hints so the bots will setup the sentries in the intelligence rooms. But everything takes engis away from the intelligence, so they feel pretty useless. I guess for people that hate engis and sentries it is good
Overall, I think this is a new twist on 2 fort that won't allow for any 30+ minute stalemates.
I see everyone really likes this map, so maybe its just me (and the bots).
There is a lot of action in the center, but you can easily avoid the action with the side routes. There are too many paths. Whoever is the quickest will get the intelligence and be back within a minute and no challenge.
Perhaps in the future make sentry hints so the bots will setup the sentries in the intelligence rooms. But everything takes engis away from the intelligence, so they feel pretty useless. I guess for people that hate engis and sentries it is good
Overall, I think this is a new twist on 2 fort that won't allow for any 30+ minute stalemates.
I see everyone really likes this map, so maybe its just me (and the bots).
Thanks for the feedback guys! Looking over the comments from the Feedback system I'll make a number of changes before I release the next beta. I'm not sure about the feedback asking to remove the balconies from the intel rooms though... maybe I'll put a window there or something to see how it works in a test.
Glad to know. I wanted this to try and break the 'CTF stalemate freeze' that 2fort gets a lot. I just wish I could make the rounds longer so people can get more caps, since it's really quick to get to 3.
Oh sweet! I'd love to see it in action with some new players to see what they think. Let me know if you manage to get it up and running on there
Yeah... bots don't tend to play very well (at all, honestly). If I navmapped the place a bit then it might be better, but I'd rather focus towards getting it working with actual (and smart) players
I gotta remind myself to add in the sudden death round too instead of having it stalemate. Stalemates suck.
This map is my favorite CTF map. Meaning better than 2fort. It is very aggressive and prevents stalemates or turtling, yet still gives teams plenty of room to defend.
Overall, a superb map. I hope it sees more love.
Glad to know. I wanted this to try and break the 'CTF stalemate freeze' that 2fort gets a lot. I just wish I could make the rounds longer so people can get more caps, since it's really quick to get to 3.
Oh sweet! I'd love to see it in action with some new players to see what they think. Let me know if you manage to get it up and running on there
This feels extremely easy and brief. Its very small. Often when I get to the intelligence, 2 other teammates arrive from other directions. Then when coming back the opposing team has the intelligence as well. However, it looks beautiful and its a great theme.
There is a lot of action in the center, but you can easily avoid the action with the side routes. There are too many paths. Whoever is the quickest will get the intelligence and be back within a minute and no challenge.
Perhaps in the future make sentry hints so the bots will setup the sentries in the intelligence rooms. But everything takes engis away from the intelligence, so they feel pretty useless. I guess for people that hate engis and sentries it is good
Overall, I think this is a new twist on 2 fort that won't allow for any 30+ minute stalemates.
I see everyone really likes this map, so maybe its just me (and the bots).
Yeah... bots don't tend to play very well (at all, honestly). If I navmapped the place a bit then it might be better, but I'd rather focus towards getting it working with actual (and smart) players
I gotta remind myself to add in the sudden death round too instead of having it stalemate. Stalemates suck.
So thanks to a lovely Hammer problem, I can't continue the map for the time being until I fix this strange issue of my map's VMF crashing Hammer every time I try and open it. Apparantly the same thing happens to YM with his Manor VMF and I can't find any solution on how to get it working again, even after copying the text data from one VMF to another. Maybe the latest SDK update has something to do with changing version numbers or something? It was working last week but now it just flat out refuses to open.
Nope, not even touched the SFM Hammer. Maybe I should reinstall?
Deodorant
L6: Sharp Member
- Oct 31, 2011
- 263
- 214
As Nightwatch just took the time to tour Crude and give me a bunch of useful feedback, I felt grateful toward the community and decided to return the favor. While I'm terrible at giving gameplay-related feedback, I think I'm decent at bitching about aesthetics, so I decided to tour some beta map. More specifically, this one.
Overall, I think it's really pretty. I'm a sucker for the Gorge theme, and I think you've executed it very well. The colour palette is pleasant and coherent, and the geometry of the architecture is appealing to look at as well.
I felt that the indoor areas slightly lacked a sense of overarching structure; The tracks give a nice sense of continuity wherever they're visible, but other than that I mostly just saw spytech rooms leading to other spytech rooms and never got a really good feel for the whole layout.
Now for the details. Images are linked for everyone's page-scrolling pleasure.
[Bulletin board]
As entertaining as this prop is, it's incredibly recognizable. When I saw it my first thought was 'Oh hey it's that bulletin board from Doomsday', and my immersion vanished. I think a world map or 20 JimiJam overlays or something would be a better choice of decoration.
[Flooded room]
Simple as it is, I really like this room. It reminds me of ctf_sawmill (which isn't a bad thing), and the total beigeness puts me in a zen state of mind. The piping and the water tank add a subtle touch of thematic consistency as well. It does however feel a bit too tidy for its flooded, basement-ish state. I think adding two or three more beige/grey clutter props (barrels, concrete blocks..) to the playable space would improve the feeling.
Also, I saw some weird flash of light on the surface of the water around where my crosshair is in that pic. I saw it once when I first entered the room, then two or three times more while strafing back and forth. It's not a big deal but I figured I might as well mention it.
[Reflection part 1]
[Reflection part 2: Back with a Vengeance]
Big noticeable piece of reflection flashes in and out of existence depending on where I stand.
[Health kit hut]
The transition from wood to concrete here is jarring. I suggest moving the wood wall in wards 4 units or so, and covering the gap with a playerclip. I'd also like to see a dark border of some kind on the edge of the concrete but I have a minor border fetish.
[Perchpoint]
Indeed.
Overall, I think it's really pretty. I'm a sucker for the Gorge theme, and I think you've executed it very well. The colour palette is pleasant and coherent, and the geometry of the architecture is appealing to look at as well.
I felt that the indoor areas slightly lacked a sense of overarching structure; The tracks give a nice sense of continuity wherever they're visible, but other than that I mostly just saw spytech rooms leading to other spytech rooms and never got a really good feel for the whole layout.
Now for the details. Images are linked for everyone's page-scrolling pleasure.
[Bulletin board]
As entertaining as this prop is, it's incredibly recognizable. When I saw it my first thought was 'Oh hey it's that bulletin board from Doomsday', and my immersion vanished. I think a world map or 20 JimiJam overlays or something would be a better choice of decoration.
[Flooded room]
Simple as it is, I really like this room. It reminds me of ctf_sawmill (which isn't a bad thing), and the total beigeness puts me in a zen state of mind. The piping and the water tank add a subtle touch of thematic consistency as well. It does however feel a bit too tidy for its flooded, basement-ish state. I think adding two or three more beige/grey clutter props (barrels, concrete blocks..) to the playable space would improve the feeling.
Also, I saw some weird flash of light on the surface of the water around where my crosshair is in that pic. I saw it once when I first entered the room, then two or three times more while strafing back and forth. It's not a big deal but I figured I might as well mention it.
[Reflection part 1]
[Reflection part 2: Back with a Vengeance]
Big noticeable piece of reflection flashes in and out of existence depending on where I stand.
[Health kit hut]
The transition from wood to concrete here is jarring. I suggest moving the wood wall in wards 4 units or so, and covering the gap with a playerclip. I'd also like to see a dark border of some kind on the edge of the concrete but I have a minor border fetish.
[Perchpoint]
Indeed.
Well I managed to get the VMF working again after reinstalling the SDK~
Thanks for the great feedback Deoderant, I've put in the changes and issues you pointed out in the images you gave me. Do you think this trim suits your border fetish well enough?
Also I'm going to be (finally) publishing the recorded sessions I did during the 72 Hour Contest of me making the map from scratch, sped up by about 32 times (from 34 hours 13 mins to about 1 hour 30 mins), so I'll post that up when I release Beta 4 tomorrow and you can see how bad my style of mapping is!
Thanks for the great feedback Deoderant, I've put in the changes and issues you pointed out in the images you gave me. Do you think this trim suits your border fetish well enough?
Also I'm going to be (finally) publishing the recorded sessions I did during the 72 Hour Contest of me making the map from scratch, sped up by about 32 times (from 34 hours 13 mins to about 1 hour 30 mins), so I'll post that up when I release Beta 4 tomorrow and you can see how bad my style of mapping is!
Doesn't matter how bad you are, Micnax, I am worse.
Beta 4 is here!
Changelog:
- Added more detail in areas suggested, most notably in the sewer segments.
- Added a basic 3D skybox, with one side being a cliff overlooking a valley in the distance. Will adjust it to look better in later versions.
- Added 4 more spectator cameras, two for each team.
I've also finished and uploaded the footage of myself mapping from start to finish during the 72 hour Contest, take a look at it!
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Amazing. I always wanted to see those kinds of vids... Now do a timelapse.
I plan to with the screenshots I've saved from each version when I get it into RC.
Also, I had the map played on the RUGC Midwest server today and got some good feedback, especially involving deepening the water. I'll probably lower the displacements in a few areas so it's easier to put yourself out if you're on fire too.
Beta 5 is here!
Changelog:
- Improved the 3D skybox to be a lot more realistic
- Adjusted fade distances on most models for optimization
- Added basic hint optimization around the mid-area (for the first time in a map ever!)
- Added more detail to the outside areas and intel rooms
- Made some parts of the lower area around middle deeper so that players can be put out by flames
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Beta 6 is here!
Changelog:
- Adjusted fog and skybox fog to be further away
- Fine-tuned fade distances on many objects
- Added small detail to the first train storage rooms
- Added 5 small easter eggs! (They're all the same, mind)
- Added custom objective text and map menu portraits
- Yet another proposal to move it up to Release Candidate
I took a look through this map, and I'm liking most of what I see. My biggest issue, though, is that the bases look too similar. Given the layout of the map, it's natural to compare it to 2Fort, so I will. One of the key things that makes 2Fort such an aesthetic masterpiece is the way they managed to pull off making the Red and Blu bases look entirely different despite sharing the same layout; Red and Blu each have radically different preferences in materials and architectural styles that make their bases visually distinctive and pleasing to look at. In this map, the bases are literally pallete swaps of each other, making the map seem kind of bland. This may be a consequence of the Gorge style, and it may also be too late in the map's development to go through such a visual overhaul, but I think it's something you should think about, it could really make the difference between a merely great map and an amazing map.
I also have a second question for you: is this no-build really necessary?
I also have a second question for you: is this no-build really necessary?
Yes, normal wrangled sentry plus good Engie equals "We need an Ubered Demoman".
So, is the goal just to discourage people from using the Wrangler by any means necessary? If so, I guess I can understand that, since I agree that the Wrangler is pretty atrocious (if I'm not specifically trying to reach a spot that I couldn't reach without the Wrangler, I always stick with my Pistol), but surely there has to be a better way to do this. When I run into these no-builds, especially in places that you otherwise intend for Soldiers and Demomen to jump to and fight on, my immersion gets broken and I feel like I'm being excluded and punished for wanting to play Engineer.