About Packed Assets in maps and ownership/crediting

Discussion in 'Mapping Questions & Discussion' started by Fr0Z3nR, Oct 8, 2015.

  1. Fr0Z3nR

    aa Fr0Z3nR Creator of blackholes & memes. Destroyer of forums

    Messages:
    6,391
    Positive Ratings:
    4,906
    Hey guys.

    Turns out, I was wrong! I was incorrect in saying that since a map was submitted through the workshop, and it was technically valves and thus the packed assets are Valves (and thus, stock), you were not obligated to credit the authors of that asset.

    I was incorrect!

    So, if you are decompiling maps and/or ripping out the assets from the Gun Mettle or Invasion maps (and I assume any map that is shipped with TF2 with the assets packed), and you use those props, you must credit the author of the props. If you are unsure who the author is, please ask.

    EDIT:

    When asked about if packed assets will be moved into the main game files:
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 7
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2015
  2. tyler

    aa tyler snail prince, master of a ruined tower

    Messages:
    5,033
    Positive Ratings:
    3,980
    You must also ask the map author before ripping assets! You can't just rip stuff out of other people's maps without asking. Usually if people are OK with you using their work, they have already released it for public use. If not, ASK FIRST.

    Also: many people are unclear on if the Invasion assets are OK to use because they were once (but no longer are) public. Could there be a decree on that? Maybe get the prop pack into the download section? People have been asking for months now.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 2
  3. Fr0Z3nR

    aa Fr0Z3nR Creator of blackholes & memes. Destroyer of forums

    Messages:
    6,391
    Positive Ratings:
    4,906
    They are updated. I could attempt to talk to Ronin about release it, or to get a ruling from him on it.
     
  4. Fantasma

    aa Fantasma

    Messages:
    886
    Positive Ratings:
    980
    Question, what about using previously available assets Bang and Ronin gave us, Backwoods depends on them as of right now.
     
  5. Fr0Z3nR

    aa Fr0Z3nR Creator of blackholes & memes. Destroyer of forums

    Messages:
    6,391
    Positive Ratings:
    4,906
    Still credit them
     
  6. tyler

    aa tyler snail prince, master of a ruined tower

    Messages:
    5,033
    Positive Ratings:
    3,980
    Please do. Or make it clear why they're now restricted. That will help a lot.
     
  7. Zed

    aa Zed Certified Most Crunk™

    Messages:
    1,243
    Positive Ratings:
    1,006
    On another note, why aren't they making these assets stock? All of the custom content in the Invasion and Gun Mettle maps was made for the maps and there shouldn't be any issues obtaining permissions for them. It also makes things much easier for mappers intending to use these assets.
     
  8. Fr0Z3nR

    aa Fr0Z3nR Creator of blackholes & memes. Destroyer of forums

    Messages:
    6,391
    Positive Ratings:
    4,906
    I have asked, awaiting a response.
     
  9. Toomai

    Toomai L3: Member

    Messages:
    129
    Positive Ratings:
    77
    I'd say it has to do with the new author payment method (assuming I have all the facts straight here). Previously, Valve would just buy the map outright with a lump sum, so it and everything in it becomes theirs and the author gets a trickle of map stamp/filter money. Now, the mappers are only being paid with money from passes; Valve isn't actually buying the map itself, and aren't gaining any control of the new assets within. Almost like licensing from a third party.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 2
  10. Fr0Z3nR

    aa Fr0Z3nR Creator of blackholes & memes. Destroyer of forums

    Messages:
    6,391
    Positive Ratings:
    4,906
    Licensing I think is a good way to describe it, yea.
     
  11. Zed

    aa Zed Certified Most Crunk™

    Messages:
    1,243
    Positive Ratings:
    1,006
    And what if the mappers are the asset creators, as in Suijin and Borneo?
     
  12. Fr0Z3nR

    aa Fr0Z3nR Creator of blackholes & memes. Destroyer of forums

    Messages:
    6,391
    Positive Ratings:
    4,906
    Then they can use their stuff freely, since they made it.

    Freely as in, Free to not credit themselves, because they'll be credited automaticlaly.
     
  13. CommodoreKong

    aa CommodoreKong

    Messages:
    332
    Positive Ratings:
    303
    Not making the custom assets from these maps stock assets definitely feels worrisome about the long term future of the Gun Mettle and Invasion maps in the game (and any future campaign maps).

    I guess the Gun Mettle campaign contracts end next week, we'll have to see if Valve removes the maps from the servers. Let's hope they don't remove them, though I just wish Valve would just come out and say if campaign maps are here to stay forever.
     
  14. fubarFX

    aa fubarFX The "raw" in "nodraw"

    Messages:
    1,619
    Positive Ratings:
    1,709
    I think paking things in bsp is kind of a dumb way forward especially for invasion where the maps all share several assets that you end up downloading multiple times. but hey, maybe valve is super duper happy about their new bsp compression and are not really worried about that anymore. Not to mention having a single file for them to distribute is a lot easier to manage.

    all in all, It is a better deal for asset creators since they will be getting a share every time their asset is used and not just upon it entering the game.

    there's some good and some bad, win some you lose some.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  15. Fr0Z3nR

    aa Fr0Z3nR Creator of blackholes & memes. Destroyer of forums

    Messages:
    6,391
    Positive Ratings:
    4,906
    When asked about if the packed assets will be included into the game files:

     
  16. Suomimies55

    Suomimies55 there's a skeleton inside you right now.

    Messages:
    129
    Positive Ratings:
    141
    well, that sucks.
     
  17. LeSwordfish

    aa LeSwordfish semi-trained quasi-professional

    Messages:
    4,109
    Positive Ratings:
    6,058
    I think that's not too bad or too surprising. Putting the assets in the game benefits one group (mappers) while being a waste of filesize for everyone else. That filesize will add up quickly, especially if valve continue with their habit of focussing on custom maps with extra content and adding lots of maps. Its not that hard to just find and download the assets. Perhaps we could curate a list of what's in what maps?
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  18. Fr0Z3nR

    aa Fr0Z3nR Creator of blackholes & memes. Destroyer of forums

    Messages:
    6,391
    Positive Ratings:
    4,906
    I was thinking about that, yea. Along with their creators, so there is ap oint of contact. Kind of like a call-sheet for custom content.
     
  19. Izotope

    aa Izotope Never releases maps

    Messages:
    614
    Positive Ratings:
    572
    I personally don't care whether or not assets are stock, as long as the authors make it available for everyone to use.
    Or make it clear that we can't use them in our maps.
     
  20. henke37

    aa henke37

    Messages:
    1,890
    Positive Ratings:
    443
    The filesize is already adding up. The content needs to be stored somewhere.

    The correct solution to avoid duplicating content is to not put it in the bsps, avoiding the duplication. Now, valve only needs to add compression to the VPK format. Shouldn't even need a redownload. Just compress content in place, shouldn't cause too much fragmentation.