9/21/2011 Beta Update

[Retroid]

Can't they just give the Pyro a primary Flare gun which fires a bit quicker and has a compression blast...

I'd literally jizz myself, of course this is totally against the original idea of the Pyro but meh, Demoknight.

 

[Doctor Paprika]

September 29, 2011
Flamethrower: Damage increased 10%
Backburner: Removed +10% damage bonus
Degreaser: Added -10% damage; Removed -25% burn damage

So aside from the removal of the Degreaser's main downside, this basically just means that the stock Flamethrower got its DPS bumped up to Backburner levels. It's technically a buff to the Degreaser, which I'm skeptical about, but it's not as if the decrease in afterburn damage mattered anyway with the prevalence of puff and sting. I don't think this will fix the balance between the flamethrowers, but they're heading down the right path.

 

[Pocket]

Backburner: Removed +10% damage bonus

Is this going to be like the Herobrine gag, where every new patch removes the same 10% damage bonus?

Degreaser: Added -10% damage; Removed -25% burn damage

Does that mean they removed an afterburn time reduction? I can't keep up with all these tweaks.

Also, is it true that the Backburner doesn't get random crits? When I was playing beta last night, someone said it didn't, but it's not officially listed in its attributes. (But then, neither is the Cow Mangler's charge shot setting people on fire, which seems kind of important.)

 

[waxpax]

Pretty sure Backburner can random crit, unless it's been patched out since it was released. I remember using it during the pyro update and wondering why I got "face-crits" until someone said that it still random crit at times.

I don't think Degreaser ever had a shorter burn time, it just did like 25% less burn damage. So, instead of like 4 damage a second, or whatever, with afterburn, you did like 3 a second.

 

[grazr]

What do you mean these BB and FT changes weren't needed, i've been waiting months for this. There's a reason no one used the flame thrower when the BB did everything it did, and more. So what if an airblast costs a little more, you only need to use it once anyway and then you grab 50% ammo off your dead enemy.

The trouble with the axe is it's actually a reliable weapon for maps with water; but how many maps feature a significant amount of water? Unless you're gonna DM on 2fort, very few circumstances make use of the axe's base, non-perk DPS. Some weapons perform better in certain environments, like the gunboots in open areas or where there's a lot of travel distance.

I'd actually like to see more maps incorporate water. We'd see some more interesting pyro dynamics.

 

[PabloFiorentino]

I still feel that the pyro is still missing some love, many other classes have gotten unique secondary items and weapons in their updates, enhancing their gameplay a lot. The pyro is still really missing a unique weapon with special attributes, related to fire of course but still... Maybe a special flamethrower that offers another use for alt-fire?

 

[Trotim]

I still feel that the pyro is still missing some love, many other classes have gotten unique secondary items and weapons in their updates, enhancing their gameplay a lot. The pyro is still really missing a unique weapon with special attributes, related to fire of course but still... Maybe a special flamethrower that offers another use for alt-fire?

flare gun is good enough. more items is the last thing tf2 needs, and have you even tried the detonator

What do you mean these BB and FT changes weren't needed, i've been waiting months for this. There's a reason no one used the flame thrower when the BB did everything it did, and more. So what if an airblast costs a little more, you only need to use it once anyway and then you grab 50% ammo off your dead enemy.

The trouble with the axe is it's actually a reliable weapon for maps with water; but how many maps feature a significant amount of water? Unless you're gonna DM on 2fort, very few circumstances make use of the axe's base, non-perk DPS. Some weapons perform better in certain environments, like the gunboots in open areas or where there's a lot of travel distance.

I'd actually like to see more maps incorporate water. We'd see some more interesting pyro dynamics.

water is terrible, there's a reason nobody uses it. even then you can just use the shotgun, or not fight in water - the fire axe wouldn't help you in water anyway and doesn't warrant doing like no damage outside water

nobody used the flamethrower, now nobody will use the flamethrower or backburner. degreaser and backburner were kinda balanced in some situations, now the degreaser is completely mandatory. that said the flamethrower and backburner need to be buffed and the degreaser needs to be left alone/nerfed

 

[Doctor Paprika]

I think the best way to nerf the Degreaser would be to reduce its quick-switch speed. Right now, it's basically instant. The only other quick-switch weapon is the Reserve Shooter, and that provides less than one quarter the switch time reduction the Degreaser does. As long as Pyros can kill 80% of all players with insta-switch combos in less than one second, the stock Flamethrower is going to remain all but totally unused.

 

[gamemaster1996]

I think that's a good buff to the pyro that they've done today. It's balanced out his weapons and made his Job a little bit easier, because I'm sure any Pyro here will agree that it's more difficult to get kills with all these new space age weapons shooting at you

 

[Jeremy]

At this point encouraging M2 is the last thing we want. I'd rather be killed by a moron than a moron who thinks puff and stung is an Olympic event

I, personally, would rather be killed by 'puff-and-sting' than W+M1. It does give me a chance to counter-act, after all, and it shows at least a bit of skill.

I will admit that airblast is still annoying though.

 

[grazr]

...that said the flamethrower and backburner need to be buffed and the degreaser needs to be left alone/nerfed

Pyro has the lowest skill ceiling at yet you want the primary weapons buffed? The problem isn't the flame thrower. It's the fact that the pyro has a weapon that near garauntees crit melee. The pyro always has a flame thrower so his enemies will nearly always be on fire when in range; and when in range of the flame thrower, in range of melee. If they sorted out the axestinguisher, the axe would be balanced and the flame throwers would be balanced.

 

[PabloFiorentino]

I agree with Raffi as well, and anyway depending on your class and if you're already used to it when the Pyro tries to 'puff and sting' you have plenty of time to shoot down and kill him specially when using a heavy, some other classes like the sniper or medic are pretty much doomed though.

 

[tyler]

It's more annoying to fight someone that spams M2, always, whether they are trying poorly to reflect, juggle, or sting. Usually they're just terrible players that bounce you around for no reason and then, yes, I kill them while I'm in the air.

Either way you've got a retarded pyro, but the M2 spamming one feels proud of himself, and that's despicable.

 

[Pocket]

What do you mean these BB and FT changes weren't needed, i've been waiting months for this. There's a reason no one used the flame thrower when the BB did everything it did, and more. So what if an airblast costs a little more, you only need to use it once anyway and then you grab 50% ammo off your dead enemy.

Now that I think about it, this is true. If you really do suck enough at airblasting that you have to use it more than twice, total, there's probably a 90% chance you're already dead anyway because you got hit with two rockets or grenades in a row.

For a while I was thinking that maybe they should bring the Backburner's airblast back down to 10% ammo use in exchange for taking away its minicrit effect, but I was hesitant to bring it up because it seemed like not a big enough tradeoff. But now I think it would be perfectly reasonable.

Also, does anyone else think the crit-on-burning-enemy effect the flare gun got should have been relegated to an alternate flare gun, and that the standard one should just have its damage increase continuously with distance, similar to the baseball's stun time?

 

[tyler]

The problem with making multiple flareguns is that the projectile and weapon are too tiny to differentiate. The projectile also moves way quicker. I can't ever tell who is wielding a detonator over a flaregun until they detonate. More flareguns is not the answer.