KotH koth_dam a12

[louise cheeze]

koth_dam - A simple koth map intended for competitive play

Hi guys, this is my first map so criticism is greatly appreciated. I've already received a lot of comments on this first version and I'll hopefully be uploading a better version by tomorrow.

a1 pics:

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[GooGuGajoob]

for competitive play

Not quite sure why everyone is very convinced on delivering for competitive play, but the design looks interesting. I do however worry that you'll find the first team to cap the point will simply hold it due to the sloped nature (height = advantage in TF2), and also that possibly you need another area to break the point away from the team spawns.

I'm not too convinced however of those sloped stairways I see in the image that have like a 90degree turn and then a 180 to get players up on top of that block. Looks very complicated and is a very thin pathway.

 

[sooshey]

Judging from the pictures, it looks really easy to spawncamp the other team once you have the point. That height advantage is probably a little too generous.

 

[louise cheeze]

Not quite sure why everyone is very convinced on delivering for competitive play

Mainly just because I play competitive and it would be nice to have more good koth maps.

It should be noted that the lower area can be reached from a forward spawn door.

As for the height advantage I'm planning on moving the spawns further from the point and making the slope less steep.

 

[louise cheeze]

I removed a lot of height advantages here but I went a little overboard and now the map is too flat. I also moved the spawns further from the point which leaves a lot of boring unoccupied area. A full list of changes is below:

• Added choke outside of spawn
• Added access to lower flank area from the spawn choke
• Made the gray buildings smaller
• Added a roof to the building further from point
  
• Made the area around point flatter
• Removed the building on point
• Added a ramp from one of the gray buildings to the lower flank area
• Added a large wall between the halves of the map as a placeholder to block sightlines
• Added water below the map

I am aware of the large number of long sightlines in this version and I will be changing several things in the next version in order to help fix those issues.

This version is also open to allow environmental deaths which I think I will remove or at least restrict in the next version.

a2 pics:

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[louise cheeze]

Changes:

• Removed the gray buildings
• Added a choke closer to the point
• Added trucks by the point to help block sightlines through the main choke
• Added a wall on the lower side to prevent environmental deaths
• Added an area below the point which can be dropped down onto
• Added turbines below the point
• Added a path on the higher side of point
• Made the flank tunnel from the lower spawn door smaller
• Added some props
• Rearranged health and ammo placements

Hopefully this version has fixed most major sightlines. I am aware of several that are still present which I will be fixing in the next version.

Also for the next version I will be moving the spawns closer to point and changing the height advantages so it is easier to push against a forward hold.

Thanks for the feedback : )

a3 pics:

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[louise cheeze]

Changes:

• Removed all dev textures in favor of concrete textures
  
• Raised the spawns up much higher to mitigate the height advantage
• Moved the spawns closer to point to reduce the useless open areas
• Added some cover behind choke to block sightlines
• Added some light props
• Closed off lower spawn exit from the surface
• Added a shutter between the lower spawn and the lower outside area
• Made a hallway in the choke building
• Added a ramp from the choke hallway to the area below point
• Removed some weird geometry in favor of displacements
• Added a small extension to the upper choke building
• Added soundscapes
• Changed water heights

This version has some issues that I overlooked, primarily a missing texture and a missing trigger_hurt in the higher water.

Please let me know of any feedback you have : )

a4 pics:

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[louise cheeze]

Changes:

• Moved the chokepoints closer to point
• Added a fence on the lower edge of point
• Added some concrete blocks to point
• Added a roof, walls, and multiple rollout paths to the area between spawn and point
• Removed the ceiling from the sniper box
  
• Added a new entrance to point below the sniper box
  
• Added a small tower near the new point entrance
• Change the gravel displacement on point a little
• Added a nobuild region to the gravel on point
• Made the glass on point a bit smaller
• Made the scaffolding by the crane look more like scaffolding
• Added more detailing
• Raised up the spawns so that there is a slight height advantage upon leaving spawn
• Widened the choke building
• Added another exit from the choke building
  
• Removed the lower spawn door
• Added a third spawn door on the side
• Combined the stairs below point into a ramp
• Moved the turbines a little forward
• Separated the lower entrance to the turbines into two doorways
• Removed the shutter in the lower flank area
• Added a cliffside by spawn

I've been working hard on this version so sorry for the slower updates!

a5 pics:

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[Etasus]

Holy shit! this map made a great turnaround! this used to be a terrible map, but look at it now! its definitely not perfect, but its getting there! I really like the improvements...

 

[louise cheeze]

Thanks!

This version looks nothing like the original which is a good thing in my opinion lol. I've learned a lot with these last couple iterations.

 

[louise cheeze]

Changes:

• Raised the point 16hu
• Removed the wooden ramps on point
  
• Added catwalks onto the point from each wall
• Added a large wall on the outside of point to prevent environmental deaths near point
• Changed the medium health and ammo packs on the wall to small packs
• Fixed the ramps behind and below point so that they are less steep
• Removed the wooden ramps by the crane in favor of flat scaffolding
• Widened the interior hallway along rollout
• Moved the lower stairs closer to choke
• Added a small health and ammo pack above the lower stairs
• Raised the area beneath point 64hu
• Added a cylinder below the cap
• Added a medium ammo pack in front of point
• Added overlays to indicate the capture area
• Replaced the large lower pipe with a metal sheet and some barrels
• Moved the water and trees to a work-in-progress 3D skybox
• Combined resupply cabinets
• Removed clip above the gravel pile along rollout
• Added glass wall by upper stairs to mitigate spawn camping
• Fixed grid alignment for many brushes which should improve clipping
• Added small health and ammo packs by the scaffolding

Thanks for the feedback on the last imp!

a6 pics:

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[louise cheeze]

Changes:

• Replaced the railings on point with a windowed wall
• Added stairs to point
• Added a some props near point to be used as cover
• Added some initial detailing and better textures to the point area and battlements
  
• Added health and ammo pickups to the small choke, to the sniper box, and to the scaffolding
• Increased the size of some health and ammo pickups
• Cleaned up the brushwork so that it is almost entirely on grid
• Added ibeams to the point area
• Slightly lowered the height of the outer walls around the point
• Raised the skybox
• Added a clip at the previous skybox height
• Added rain

a7 pics:

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[louise cheeze]

Minor Changes:

• Made the windows in the main buildings one-way, only attackers can see onto the point
• Raised the area around point to be less steep
• Removed several props on point

 

[louise cheeze]

Minor Changes:

• I had uploaded the wrong file

 

[louise cheeze]

There are quite a few changes from the last version and I probably forgot some:

• Moved each team's main building slightly closer to point
• Removed the ibeams above the point area
• Removed the scaffolding area
• Added a building in place of the dropdown onto the lower area
• Removed the fence by the lower area
• Removed the remaining prop cover on the point area
• Removed the roof on the point walls
• Removed some of the windows in each team's main building
• Moved the water towers by rollout
• Replaced the gravel elevator with a truck
• Added a platform to allow all classes to cross the back-top area of the main building
• Altered the shape of the main choke
• Slightly raised the ceiling in the lower area
• Changed the concrete texture to a slightly darker one which can be blended with grass
  • I'm hoping to move the theme from abandoned construction to overgrown abandoned

a8 pics:

Spoiler

 

[Red Robot]

Hahaha, I thought it would be wicked to be able to jump from one window by the waterfall to the other, but there's an invisible wall! This map feels kinda labyrinthine in the underground sections, they might be a bit too extensive and some of the walkways feel a little too tight for comfort, then again that might just be the risk you take going down there.

Some of the geometry is quite blocky and irregular, it reminds me of those old HL1 maps. Making the ramps/steps more in line with the style of in-game levels would help sell the map, make it feel like an actual place and not brushes placed in an editor. You've made huge leaps and bounds since the first screenshots. You've got a unique design with the underground section, kind of reminds of of koth_king in a way.

My advice (whatever that's worth) would be to simplify/reduce the size of the underground area and smooth out the geometry/play spaces to make them feel more comfortable for the player. Good luck!

 

[...]

After doing some noclipping and running around, I would say that overall its a good map. I wouldn't allow that height advantage at the spawns, as the team that caps gets the height advantage and easy camping.

 

[louise cheeze]

Thanks for the feedback, guys

@Red Robot , I've been thinking of altering the lower areas significantly but at the moment I'm not quite sure what I'd like to do. As for the geometry, I agree and I think I've made good progress in the last few versions.

@... , thank you! I've been thinking of moving the spawns a little bit so that the height advantage is less of an issue. I'll probably bring them a forward and up about 100 units.

 

[...]

@turtleboy666 I did forgot to mention one thing though, I would love to see this map in competitive tf2.

 

[louise cheeze]

This update had a ton of changes:

• Raised the middle section
• Raised the cap into a nipple
• Removed the walls on the catwalks
• Split the catwalks into two separate ones
• Split the main building in two
• Removed the underneath area
• Moved the spawns higher up and a little closer to point
• Moved the primary health and ammo packs further from point

This version is a little bland texture-wise but I was mainly focusing on the level design aspect.

a9 pics:

Spoiler

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