CP Forsaken Downpour b1b

A somewhat complex analysis of the A forward and backward hold:

The cover in this area is pretty cool. It helps to solve a very pervasive problem with this spawnroom, which is that BLU must run past these two doors in order to get to their other exits. This is theoretically still a problem if RED holds the low ground, but this didn't matter in the one demo I watched.


One thing that's pretty noticeable is that even if this cover design works, whether you use the low ground, high ground or farway third exit of BLU's spawn, it all leads you to the same place:

This is the primary source of advantage for RED; they can watch all three routes with nearly nonexistent rotate time. It also means that there's minimal distinction between the forward and backward hold. In my maps, I like to make it so that there's a route between the forward and backward hold that RED can only prevent BLU from using if they control the room it starts from - thereby defining that room as the forward hold and the exit of the route as the backward hold.

It seems like you understand this, since there's a route that looks almost like it was designed for this exact purpose, in this very room:


But this route is made largely pointless, since to get to it, you have to pass this doorway, which exposes you to a lot of RED's defensive positions:


So, what I think the best (although a little extreme) option is is to add a partitioning wall to split this entire arena:

This would ensure that if RED is holding the high ground in the forward hold, if they want to watch BLU's faraway route, they must either drop down or retreat to the backward hold.

It would also prevent RED sniping classes from stopping BLU from reaching that dropdown route I was talking about earlier.

Now, this would probably make it pathetically easy for BLU to take the forward hold.
So, RED needs an easy rotate route that lets them go through the partioning wall to watch the faraway route during the forward hold.

There are a couple of options for this:


Fun fact: The height DOES NOT protect people in the faraway (BLU sniping route) on its own, so you'd need to add some kind of like, plywood sheet covering the doorway and the side of the stairs
I am sure this all makes perfect sense.

The backward hold suffers from much the same problem as the forward hold; RED being able to watch everywhere from everywhere else without really needing to move.

The partitioning wall (as well as slightly extending a bit of cover) would somewhat help with this, as the low ground as well as this position with the medium health and ammo can no longer see the other side of the arena.


From there, the worst problem with the backward hold would be it being kind of boring. RED would all stand directly on the point to defend it, and so BLU would only cap after killing them all. This is fine - RED needs a chance to defend - but not how I prefer my CPs.

It's worth noting that it would be kind of interesting, since RED's snipers would be standing here and fighting BLU on their own sniping route, while the close-range classes would be completely safe from this dichotomy thanks to the partitioning wall:

It's also worth noting that this creates kind of a problematic mixing of purposes; if BLU wants to be safe from the RED snipers, they can't use the low-ground - they have to use the partitioning wall - but if they do that, the first place they emerge puts them right next to the RED snipers.

So, if you're a RED sniper, you probably feel like this is complete bullshit and you die to people who you could not possibly have stopped from reaching you.

One possible fix for this is to make the partioning-wall route go into a new route behind the point, so it doesn't interact with RED's sniper perch anymore.
If you do this, you may like to make this part of the partitioning wall chain-link, so RED can see when BLU is getting behind them.

Soooooo... how close would you say you are to getting to Beta?

a freakin' knight said:

If people react to A well, next version will most likely be Beta

Click to expand...

this will be TF2 on Source 2

I wanted to share, I checked out b1 and really liked the detailing on the first point, particularly the areas where warm light was used to contrast the naturally cool palette of the sewers around BLU spawn. I did think, though, that the area around the cap itself was a bit too "flat cool" and could use some visual flair. I was a little torn on sharing such a subjective opinion though, but then you go and add some nice lighting that does exactly that!

While I'm commenting, two things:

I noticed in b1a that water reflections tend to break in a weird way when you're standing in this corner, and also when you're moving below it. This does not happen in b1.


Secondly, this is a pretty small detail, I think, but it would be nice if the first point was better at capturing your focus, visually. While the approach to A is relatively simple in the grand scheme of things, and the map itself flows towards the point, the Red hologram capture light thing is very often obscured from Blu's perspective, and the area itself doesn't scream "go here!" to me.