[WIP] CP_OILRIG * Alpha 4

[VelvetFistIronGlove]

Great work on the detail! This is a very nice-looking map. I particularly like the gloomy darkness outside (though a touch of fog would improve the atmosphere I think). Unlike most dark maps, the playable areas in this are well lit.

I did get hopelessly lost the first time I played (as defence): coming out of spawn, there was no obvious sign to point A, so I stayed upstairs and went toward point C, figuring I could find my way back to A from C, but the maze of twisty little passages (all different) got me confused for a full five minutes. Not fun. (and it wasn't the last time, either. See below).

Then later, as an attacking team, we also had a lot of difficulty taking point A (in fact, we failed altogether). One thing that no doubt contributed to this is that while the attackers have a long walk to get to point A from spawn, the defenders don't have far to go at all (if they don't get lost ). Also, the long stairs that the attackers take up to point A is too straight; it's very easy for a soldier or demoman to close that route off to attackers completely.

However, in the UK game day, we played again, and this time did better. While as defence we managed to hold of the opponents from gaining A again, as attackers we managed to capture it (and B) quite quickly. Point C however was quite confusing; even getting there was not obvious. We found we could enter the door to the spawn that the defenders had had for point A, and use the resupply cabinets there, but still not spawn in there (hence a long trip for most attackers, although I built a teleport to help). Also, just before you exit from there through the door that exits near the big freight elevator, there's a door on the left that goes to a resupply room. For some reason after we went through it, it seemed to get stuck and not open properly, so I was stuck with a teleport exit and dispenser in a dead-end room. It did seem to open for the enemies though, so I got out eventually. And we capped point C in the end.

One final point I found confusing -- there's a back door to the attackers spawn, that leads out to a platform from which you can see parts of the oil rig; this area seems pretty pointless, even for a sniper, as there aren't any capture points in view from there. The little platform a bit closer to the oilrig made a nice place from which to sticky-jump to between A and B (and the defenders were saying "how was he attacking from there?". The first time I tried that to attack point A tho, I turned left instead of right, and somehow ended up lost in all the little tunnels at C again.

Unfortunately I forgot to start recording a demo for the Sunday game; so if you're not sure which areas I'm talking about, I'll load up the map and put in some screenshots for you.

 

[Brandished]

My rule of thumb for nobuilds is to place them everywhere an engineer can get to, but an enemy spy can't. Spies are a balancer class for engineers and should be able to access every spot an engineer on the opposing team can build.

Every area protected from members of the opposing team by a no-entry should be nobuild'ed, keep in mind that the "func_respawnroom" doubles as a nobuild, so you don't need a func_nobuild to overlap it.

The other thing many mappers miss is the engineers vertical clearance, engineers can use their sentry as a platform and jump off it build teleporters on top of ledges 186~190 units high. This gives them access to areas unreachable by all other classes except soldiers, demo's and other engineers.

I know that's a lot to consider when mapping, even some of the VALVe maps fail this aspect, *cough* GRAVELPIT *cough*.



Here are some things I noticed in the most recent version of Oilrig I played, you may you may have already fixed some of these in your vmf:

- the health and ammo packs were prop_static entities rather then "item_healthkit" and "item_ammopack" entites, I ran through them rather then picking them up

- as has already been said, the skybox wasn't lighted well enough, it felt more like I was playing on platforms inside a void then on an oil rig in the middle of the ocean. The water wasn't visible in most places.

- The outside of the rig itself needs some more lights as well, especially if you want to keep the night-time setting. I believe this would not only greatly improve the map's visual appeal, but also give it a more realistic appearance, most oil rigs over water are lit up like christmas trees so ships don't run into them.

- The metal texture covering the floor of most of the level needs something to break it up, the current texturing is too repetitive. some small ledges in between the rooms and were ramps are attached might do the trick.

- The stairs near high traffic areas need to be player clipped to smooth out movement.

- The first control point is nearly impossible to take. The main problem is the only pathways for the attacking team to take are right next to each other and go through the same choke point making them both easily blocked off by the defending team. The noentry is also right next to the point, giving the defending team a safe spot to resupply and regroup.

- The last point is also almost impossible to take. It's problems are similar to the first's. The noentry, although not right next to the point, sits in between the attacking team and the final cp. The resupply locker being directly behind the door compounds the problem, the defending team can easily turtle there. The paths leading to the point are right on top of each other forcing the enemy team to come in from the same direction no matter which path they take.

A good rule of thumb is to have at least 2 areas of approach for each objective (whether it be a control point, intel briefcase, or whatever) for both teams. Basically, a team trying to block a goal from the opposing one shouldn't be able to aim their weapons in one direction and engage every member of the opposing team as they try and take the objective. Also, the attacking team shouldn't be able to easily camp an entrance and lock the defending team inside their spawn. This will not only give both teams a better chance for victory, but it will makes your map more replayable as well. You don't want to force people to have to do the same thing every time they play your map in order to win.

I should prolly put these comments into a guide of sorts in the tutorial section...

 

[Shmitz]

My rule of thumb for nobuilds is to place them everywhere an engineer can get to, but an enemy spy can't. Spies are a balancer class for engineers and should be able to access every spot an engineer on the opposing team can build.

Personally, I think spy-inaccessible sentry spots are fine as long as they're balanced in other ways. Perhaps the spot only guards one of three pathways, or its range of fire is limited. Perhaps a spy can't get up there but it's really easy for a demoman to pepper the spot with stickies without being shot at. Maybe it's easy to get range on for soldiers or snipers.

I will agree that critical locations should not have raised platforms that an engineer can build on that a spy can't get to. A spy-free sentry should never be able to cover an important chokepoint or directly cover a capture point or the intel. Also, anything guarded by a no-entry should definitely be nobuild, because then it's just no effort to get set up.

A decent middle-ground is platforms a spy can't get up to but can still sap anything built on the edge. The spy won't be able to backstab the engy, but he can still shut the sentry down long enough for teammates to come in and finish the job.

Unfortunately I haven't played enough on oilrig to be aware of any specific places that should be no-build, aside from locations that need to be clipped off anyway (like the top of the cargo containers between A and B).

 

[Gadget]

many thanks to you guys. I still wasn't able to play it on a full server but some of your thoughts are really understandable. I fixed most of the points you mentioned. here's some updated material...

originally I decided not to use concrete textures on the outdoor area because I wanted it to be all metal. well, I changed the green metal in some areas and it doesn't look so bad...so I think I'll leave it like this. also did add a one way door at CP A to make it easier for team BLU.

little texture tweaks and some more direction signs. this area is not finished yet.

added another route from B to C:



which comes up here


the vent room is now accessible right from the start through the small door and I did rearrange the no-entrys. I think gameplay will be more fun in the next version.

 

[VelvetFistIronGlove]

as has already been said, the skybox wasn't lighted well enough, it felt more like I was playing on platforms inside a void then on an oil rig in the middle of the ocean. The water wasn't visible in most places.

Give the skybox a gradient from the darkest (deep blue/black) to a dark blue on the horizon. Would be even better with a stars and a full moon and a dim bluish-white light_environment (with no or very little ambient). If you could then get the water to "reflect" the moon with an appropriate cubemap, that'd be awesome.

Edit: in the pictures above you now have too much ambient light outside; you want most of the light to be from light_spots shining down, so you get nice strong visual shadows that don't actually make much of the map dark.

 

[Gadget]

here are some screenshots after I changed most of the outdoor lighting:



















I'd like to release beta 2 this weekend so I'm looking for two or three volunteers that would spend maybe half an hour to run through the map and check if everything's working. Some questions you would have to answer:

- are there any areas where the player can get stuck or shouldn't go to? (player clipping needed)
- doors, elevators, items working?
- any place that needs more light or less?
- other suggestions...

I'll also be anwsering those questions for myself but usually it's better to have more than one opinion.

 

[Thermopyle]

We played B1 on our server for a good while tonight. Some quick observations:

Points A and B fell to the attackers very quickly because none of the defenders could figure out how to get there. There's lots of nooks/crannies/hallways all around C that don't really lead anywhere and just add to the confusion about where to go.

Because C is so complex, I always felt like we were missing something about where we should go, or whether there was other routes into C that we were missing. This was compounded by the fact that the attacking team was constantly talking about "Why won't this door open?", "Where do we go from here?". (I turn on alltalk for custom map tryouts)

Not once was anyone able to successfully attack C. It needs another route.

All-in-all, I can see that this could end up a high-quality map.

If you're interested in playing the map on a full, or nearly-full server, contact me on steam (Thermopyle[CIA]). We play custom maps on Wednesday and Saturday nights.

 

[Gadget]

all the points you mentioned are fixed already and I'll come back to your offer as soon as beta 2 is released

 

[Gadget]

I just released beta 2. You can grab it at FPSBanana.com

 

[VelvetFistIronGlove]

Quick, put it up in the game day thread!

 

[Gadget]

Quick, put it up in the game day thread!

I did that but sadly it was too late

 

[Thermopyle]

We played this with 24 players during one of our custom map marathons last night.

It's less confusing now, so good job with that. I enjoyed the gameplay and a lot of features of the map, but most people just didnt like all the chokepoints. Particular complaints about the chokepoints to A and the small hallways to A and B near C (right past the sliding door by the big slow moving elevator.

These areas just turned into demo/soldier spam fests.

 

[PMAvers]

Yeah, there *really* needs to be a different way out of the attacker's spawn, it's almost impossible to get out of the current one with a half-way competent camping squad watching that door. (When we were testing it, we didn't really get a chance to test the rest of the map since it basically ended there.) Maybe a bridge that goes across the "look-out" gap?

 

[Gadget]

maybe this additional new path will help

 

[Spike]

Cool map, unfortunatelly I haven't played it. I will play it if I see a server runing it.

 

[oxy]

maybe this additional new path will help

Looks like a decent adjustment. Might I suggest also adding a ramp or stairs to where the Demo is standing in the first pic. That will also help with getting to point B and C a little faster.

 

[Gadget]

I'm changing the layout totally right now and rebuilding half of the map...