CTF Haarp rc

[Dr. Spud]

This map looks really good. It's obvious you put a lot of effort into how good it looks. Game play suffers in some areas though. When I played, it was a full 12v12, and the game play delineated into just spamming rockets/nades like a mad man.

CP 1-1 was pretty good, this was never not taken within the first few minutes. I assume that's fine, given it IS the first point after all. The broken window is a good addition for flanking and rocket/nade jumping for captures. I think this area is fine.

CP 1-2 however is a different story. There are routes that shouldn't exist, and some routes that should but don't. Mainly, the two sets of stairs leading to the balcony promotes a stalemate - Red camping with no way for Blue to work into Red's side, so to speak.
http://img186.imageshack.us/i/ctfhaarpneedsflank02.jpg/
http://img186.imageshack.us/i/ctfhaarpneedsflank01.jpg/

The area under the balcony would make for a fine little alternate route to connect somewhere out of the way, so that Blue has a chance to flank.

http://img215.imageshack.us/i/ctfhaarpflankroute01.jpg/


Now there are two flanking pathways, one over the other, and they both come out at about the same place. This makes the bottom one redundant since the top one is strictly better, and the bottom one is easily watched and spammed from the catwalk. Both can be watched from the same area, making them both weak to the same defensive spot.

http://img136.imageshack.us/i/ctfhaarpnotneeded01.jpg/
http://img136.imageshack.us/i/ctfhaarpnotneeded02.jpg/

I think you should remove that path, and instead make that archway a main assault path for Blue. You would probably have to raise it up and add a ramp downward, but this would allow for a big uber push, open up the area and make it not so claustrophobic. You might have to be careful of sniper LoS though.

http://img22.imageshack.us/i/ctfhaarpassaultentrance.jpg/
http://img183.imageshack.us/i/ctfhaarpassaultentrance.jpg/

We never got past point 2-2. Point 2-1 seemed alright, we didn't have much trouble breaking through that, but at the time I think the teams were stacked. Still, don't have much to say about it, seems good enough.

Point 2-2 had a hell of a grinder though. All the paths weave into a single corridor, which becomes basically a contest of who can spam the most explosives. It was very aggravating. No progress could be made because red could very easily defend this grinder.
This is the what death looks like for Blue.
http://img200.imageshack.us/i/ctfhaarpgrinder01.jpg/

Making two alternate flanking routes might help this out a lot, though, and I don't even think it would be that hard to fix.
http://img186.imageshack.us/i/ctfhaarpflankroute03.jpg/
http://img200.imageshack.us/i/ctfhaarpflankroute02.jpg/

Seems simple enough. Alleviate some of that combat flow to these small side flanking routes and I think suddenly the point should be a little more fair.

I agree with the problems you bring up. Today's test was rougher than previous ones.

But you're suggestions would be problematic. I know that because, interestingly enough, they used to be in the map in one form or another. The problem with having these extra paths to CP 1-2 and 2-2 is that they're better for Red than they are for Blu. When the map was tested with them in, Red was basically given easy routes to either push Blu back, or get behind Blu.

The one exception is the last one you posted - the path on the left side headed toward CP 2-2. I've been considering a path there for a little while, and I might end up adding one.

 

[Ravidge]

Maybe open up a passage from this wall to that side room?
http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/1281220/SS-2009.09.12-20.32.21.jpg

Just an idea that popped up while playing, didnt put much thought into it.


Edit: oh wow, it's the same one as zwiffle posted (last one)

 

[Radaka]

http://img27.imageshack.us/gal.php?g=hl22009091400490506.jpg

 

[Dr. Spud]

I'm going to test out a version of the map before releasing the beta. This is to double check that everything is working out right, since I added a ton of new content. This is basically exactly what the beta will be, minus a long VRAD compile.

Also, say hello to Red's newest doomsday device (edit: still needs a real texture, but whatever):

More screens in the first post.

-------------------
ctf_haarp_test1
-------------------
Gameplay Changes:
-Overtime removed
-Red's spawn times are slightly increased.

Layout changes:
-Added skybox, snow, models, and other wonderous things.
-All capture points have new computer models that are uniform throughout the map.
-Added a small wall to nerf a sentry spot at CP 1-2
-Added a side path near CP 2-2, and edited the area under the AC unit to be a new path for Blue, rather than a sentry spot for Red.
-Changed around some health and ammo locations leading up to CP 3-2.

 

[Void]

Mein Gott, wünderbar!

 

[The_Ulf]

Love how you made the double-desk there - and the radar dish is looking hawt despite textures. Great work!

Edit: Btw - who did those re-colored nucleus glowing beam textures? I'm going to want to use it for an upcoming project.
Edit 2: Aha - looks like its self-lium is determined in the .vmf, not the texture .vtf itself - playing with it right now!
Edit 3: Why yes - the red one is indeed a stock texture. Don't know why I never bothered checking Ibeam_light_01a.

 

[MrTwitch]

I haven't been able to test his map out yet but I have spent hours staring at the pictures in this thread. You sir, have outdone yourself.

 

[gustav]

I dont like computer model. It is too modern to fit TF2 theme. Also at begning of third stage there are (prabobly) computer station that look to modern.

Anyway ant wait for first beta

 

[Dr. Spud]

Edit: Btw - who did those re-colored nucleus glowing beam textures? I'm going to want to use it for an upcoming project.

That's a default texture. The texture browser image isn't red though.

 

[littleedge]

I'll run through Haarp with my usual screenshot gallery post following it later tonight. But you should do an impromptu test tonight as well

 

[Sgt.Sausage]

I love the new doomsday device and all the screens looks awesome. This just keeps getting better and better cant wait to play the beta.

 

[Nineaxis]

Firstly, your doors need [ame=http://forums.tf2maps.net/showthread.php?t=8753]bullet ricochets[/ame].

Secondly, stuff:

Little cracks between brushes.

Needs playerclipping so I don't get stuck on that end post.

Playerclip that whole area by the wall so walking is flush with the door frame, right now you get stuck in there.

Texture needs re-alignment.

 

[littleedge]

http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/1490725/ctf_haarp_test10000.jpg
http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/1490725/ctf_haarp_test10001.jpg
http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/1490725/ctf_haarp_test10002.jpg
Hazah! I survived the killpit! Also, I remember somebody, Supertoaster maybe, who jumped onto the support beams (supporting the top path) in between them and the wall and survived the killpit.

http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/1490725/ctf_haarp_test10003.jpg
I'm on a light.

http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/1490725/ctf_haarp_test10004.jpg
BLU spawn, Stage 2, in the elevator.

http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/1490725/ctf_haarp_test10005.jpg
On a pipe.

http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/1490725/ctf_haarp_test10006.jpg
BLU spawn, Stage 3.

http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/1490725/ctf_haarp_test10007.jpg
These lights on the left of 3-1 aren't completely on the wall. They're hanging off a little, which results in bumpy sidling of the wall and a place to stand.

http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/1490725/ctf_haarp_test10008.jpg
In the outdoor area of Stage 3, top of that displacement looks odd compared to the wall.

http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/1490725/ctf_haarp_test10009.jpg
Same place as before, I can hang out on this fence.

http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/1490725/ctf_haarp_test10010.jpg
Same place as before, I'm on a window. I'm implying the other windows are the same.

http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/1490725/ctf_haarp_test10011.jpg
Just something I noticed. You have three clocks right next to eachother making a V that are the same time, and a fourth in the bottom right. Nothing important, just rotate them some more if you feel like it.

http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/1490725/ctf_haarp_test10012.jpg
It seems weird for the blue light to be in a red spawn.


Also, on 3-1, the upper walls look very bland. Supertoaster suggested windows, and I agree. Maybe in the corner to the left of the point (from RED spawn), you could have a door that leads to a detail room with stairs in it. Above that a little, you could have another glass window that looks upon a staircase. Above that, you could have a third window with a computer overlooking the area. Just an idea.

Also, a fun fact: You can see a small part of Stage 3 from the First Stage

 

[Cerious]

Absolutely phenomenal detailing - I loved the creative skybox usage. The third stage doesn't feel anywhere near spytech IMO - too much office space and hallways - I'd suggest more sinister console rooms if you want a spytech feel like in Vector.

 

[deevus]

Completing the first capture point in the second section causes the map to end.. Ideas?

 

[Nineaxis]

Completing the first capture point in the second section causes the map to end.. Ideas?

Your server has a cap limit of 3 in it's config.

 

[Dr. Spud]

Beta is released!

Between the test1 version and this version, I've fixed the laggy particles and optimized a bit more.

Go! And remember, this means it's out to the public. Tell your friends!

 

[Owlruler]

yay! beta!

 

[littleedge]

HECK YES! BETA! And if the outside still lags me some, I'll just turn off weather effects with that new option and it'll hopefully lag me less! Yay!

 

[Radaka]

Congrats on the beta! Hopefully the final capture point will hold up to testing by idio.... err.... non-mappers playing it.