From the last test, it looks like it's more balanced as it was a solid 50/50 from 4 matches. Anyway, I tried to address some things. This is a pretty small update.

  • (EXPERIMENTAL) BLU's forward spawn has been disabled. Their respawn wave time after A is capped has been decreased to 7 (from 10) to compensate, making both teams' respawn wave times identical after A is capped. I'm just testing this out to see how it plays out. I'm hoping that the flow of battle is more manageable for RED, so that they're not constantly rushing around checking every entrance for attackers. If this turns out to be a good change, I'll make the BLU forward spawn into a building that can be used by RED defenders.
  • The flank dropdown has been nerfed again - now it's a chickenwire fence, so you can no longer pass through. However, there is a gap in the fence for grenades to be lobbed through. There's also a medium Health and Ammo kit.
  • The window in the same area is now covered with a chickenwire fence. I might end up just making it solid wall.
  • Blocked some sightlines
  • Fixed visible nodraw
  • Fixed overlays not showing in various places
Whew, from the IMP it was clear that defenders really have it rougher than I thought as attackers never won a single game the entire session. With this in mind I've made several changes to hopefully make playing as RED more enjoyable and rewarding.

Gameplay

  • Both teams start with 5 second respawn times. When A is captured, RED's is set to 7 and BLU's is set to 10 (previously, BLU had a respawn time of 2 and RED had a respawn time of 7). This should hopefully introduce more of a rhythm to the fights while also meaning there are less instances where RED instantly has to give up territory as soon as BLU pushes in.
  • Increased B's capture time from 6 to 12 seconds
  • Removed Medium Health in the B flank room
  • Made the B flank room doorway substantially larger. This should make flankers easier to notice in time and less protected, while still giving the room use as a decloaking spot.
  • Replaced Small Ammo in B stair room with Medium Ammo
  • Window exposing the flank leading all the way to the back of B has been made a lot bigger. This is to discourage flankers from being able to run past more freely, and will hopefully give the grate balcony more use.
  • Removed a "balloon building" at A which previously existed to block sightlines. Frees up space but if people complain about sightlines again I'll have to figure something out.
  • Added water to the bottom of the dropdown near A to soak up falling damage
  • Removed decorational minecart at B, at the foot of the right cave flank.
  • I had a report that there weren't enough spawnpoints in RED spawn, even though there were 16 and it was a 24 player server. I deleted and re-added most of them to be safe.
  • Rotated some smoothing clip brushes in BLU spawn, which were erroneously 180 degrees the wrong way, making them act as blocks and not smooth in the slightest.
Other
  • More detailing/optimization
  • Fixed some visual errors (displacement seams, etc.)
Oops! YOYOYO just showed me an Areaportal bug I missed as I uploaded A1a. This small update fixes that. Thanks YOYOYO!
Added soundscapes, covered up visible nodraw areas, changed some geometry for optimization/sightlines and fixed lightglows not appearing.
At long last, I've picked this map up again and given it a fresh lick of paint, as well as many small changes that I've lost track of over time. Here's the ones I can remember:

  • First detail pass! But only really at point B! A is still in dev textures! I'm still looking for gameplay feedback atm and most of the detail is unfinished.
  • Optimization with Hints, Areaportals and Occluders
Gameplay changes:
  • The one-way grate balcony of previous versions has returned! And it's combined with the more recent path round to the back of B! More choice.
  • Grate removed from cave at B
  • A small shack has been simplified. It's now a mining support wall (with Occluders inside)
  • Probably more! I forget!

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Thanks so much to everyone who's playtested this map, it's really helped me and spurred me on to keep changing and adding to it.

  • Reduced healthpack in basement (pillar room) to medium (don't remember changing it to full?)
  • Better structures around the transition from first building to second - more cover, etc.
  • The balcony flank has been completely altered. The one-way grate door has been removed, and instead it leads to a balcony that wraps all the way round up to a new room that has a view of the Control Point.
  • Medium healthkit has been moved to the new room, and a medium ammopack has been added next to it
  • Ammo packs above and inside the underpass have been swapped back to promote Engineer building again. (On top is a full ammo pack, below is a medium one.)
  • The recent flank that leads to the second point yard has been tweaked. The Sentry/Sniper platform has been removed, so only jumping class defenders can reach it. The one-way door has also been pushed back. I doubt this will be enough to make it viable, since Demomen can just watch it with stickies, but oh well. The route to this flank has also been substantially simplified.
  • Increased first's capture time from 10 to 15 seconds
  • Reduced second's capture time from 7 to 6 seconds
  • Removed UwU
Added that cave flank I mentioned before, as well as respawnroom visualizers for BLU's forward spawn
Updated based on feedback again, thanks so much to anyone who's played on it!

General
  • Reduced sightlines significantly around BLU spawn (curse you, Doom)
  • Physically shifted the second half of the map over by a few units as a result
  • Changed around various health and ammo

First CP
  • BLU now has a forward spawn! I don't know if this is a good change or not, but oh well
  • Reduced CP 1 Capture time from 15 seconds to 10
  • The layout of the lobby has changed a bit

Second CP
  • Swapped the Full and Medium Ammo packs at second
  • Moved RED spawn back a bit
I think more has to be done about this area, but we'll see how it goes. If anyone has any opinions about the ammopack swapping, let me know!

Misc.

  • Removed OwO


Plans for future: I think the map in general needs a little more breathing room around the indoor areas and outside in the second CP area. Some parts have weird flow imo so I'll want to address that. As always, all ideas and feedback are welcome!
This is a pretty big update taking the first IMP session feedback into account.
The impression I got from watching it and looking at the winrates were that second is solid, but a little hard to push, and first is too easy to capture.

First Contol Point:
  • I changed up first a lot, hopefully making it harder for attackers to take over as quickly. There's more Sentry spots and overall it's a lot more open. The CP is covered now, I'm not sure if I like this but we'll see how it plays.
  • Moved BLU spawn physically away from the Control Point. I doubt this will be enough, but for now that's that.
  • Removed shutter doors all over, now there's just one in the transition from first lobby to second.
Second Control Point
  • To give BLU more attacking options, the cave now has a second exit into the underpass, onto a raised balcony. This area was already being held down by Engineers and Demomen before, since it seems like a very useful and significant flank, yet attackers would actually have to walk past the point in order to reach it, and it mostly seemed like a Spy route. With all this in mind, I moved the healthpack down the bottom of the stairs, pushed the medium healthkit into a cubby in the underpass - hopefully making it more of a cool Spy decloak spot - and created the balcony exit.
  • I'm not sure if this new exit needs a grate or not, since it kind of echoes the balcony at the end of Badwater. I guess I'm just anxious about Soldiers being able to jump up there and wreck any nests set up in the cave - if people don't like it, I'll just leave it as an open doorway.
  • Changed some geometry for easier navigation and flow
  • Blocked a sightline from RED yard to inside lobby
  • The underpass is blocked by a door until CP1 is captured, to help guide rolling-out RED players who haven't seen the rest of the map.
Misc.
  • Added OwO
I heard someone in the IMP mention that it feels like most of BLU's flanks in the second CP can be covered easily. I thought of this solution:
LIMPgMn.png

Another cave flank that exits out onto the Sentry/Sniper platform. However, I haven't yet implemented it out of the drastic change in flow it could bring, and out of effort. Also it would require another one-way gate.

If anyone has any suggestions whatsoever, feel free to hit me with 'em!
  • The map file is now named correctly :p
  • Got rid of the visual glitch in lower flank/lobby (I'll refer to this room as pillar room)
  • There's now a dropdown connecting upper lobby to pillar room
  • Changed around some health and ammo. There's less health in the first CP upper lobbies but the small health kit in the pillar room has been replaced with a medium kit.
  • Added a missing shutter door
  • Improved some of the lighting
  • Added a Sentry/Sniper balcony to final CP
  • Minor visual changes
  • Probably some other changes too