Ye Olde Conteste - Public Voting Thread

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Katsu! :3

Veteran Cat
aa
Jul 30, 2021
948
650
1730556765722.png


Aye lad, welcome to the voting thread! This is the spot where all of you non-judge people will be putting up your votes for each of the Ye Olde Conteste maps that you've played! Lemme get into things:

Important Stuff
Voting begins on November 3rd, 2024, 12:00AM Eastern US Time
Voting ends on Novermber 30th, 2024, 11:59PM Eastern US Time
You can get every single map to vote on right here!: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ZYz3RvgBtQ-M-NhOcPBxm97nYkbIJwZM/view?usp=sharing

HOW TO VOTE
There are two options for you to make a ballot for Ye Olde Conteste: An in-TF2Maps ballot, and a ballot that uses google drive. Both have templates and instructions that will be listed below. A reminder that for your vote to be valid, you must have voted for 11/23 of the maps here. All votes must be made on a 1-through-10 scale, and you may vote on any map as long as you have not worked on it yourself. PLEASE DO NOT USE DECIMALS IN YOUR VOTES.

TF2Maps Ballot Template
Depending on your browser, you should be able to just highlight the entire table and paste it into the forum textbox. If not though, navigate to the insert table button (
1730557707686.png
) and create a 10x4 table. From there, all you'll need to do is add 13 more rows and follow the way the way the table was set up in this template.
Map​
Gameplay​
Uniqueness​
Detailing​
Notes (Optional)​
arena_jarl_b1
arena_joust_a3
arena_pithaul_b5
cp_barracks_a4
cp_collliseum_a1
cp_fopdoodle_b2
cp_moby_a1a
ctf_alexandria_a7a
ctf_caberville_a2
ctf_drunkard_b4a
ctf_feed_a1d
ctf_jumannji_a1
ctf_tour_b6c
dom_mercmania_a2
koth_rockefeller_a1
koth_seashore_a3
mech_outpost_a8
pd_ballista_b10
pd_engarde_a2
pl_basalt_event_b0
pl_furz_a4b
rd_august101_oldies_a2c
sd_rivermud_a5
I will say again, by the time the end of voting comes around, HAVE AT LEAST 11 DONE. If they are not done in time, your ballot will be deemed invalid.
Google Drive Template
1730559777071.png

When you open the link above, the sheet should look like this. In order for you to make your own ballot with this, you must make a copy of the template by going to "File" in the top left of your screen, then "Make a copy" in the dropdown box. Once you've made your copy, you need to go to your own copy's sharing settings and enable your ballot be visible to anyone with comments enabled. It's done via dropdown menus.
Screenshot (441).png
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Once you've made your own copy of the template (and shared with us), you can freely edit your own version of the sheet however you want. There are notes on each image in the sheet that will tell you which map you're voting on if you click on them. When submitting your ballot, you should always provide a link to your ballot on TF2Maps via a forum comment to this thread. A picture of your actual ballot is optional, though it would be appreciated on the page itself for when we're tallying things up. Notes are optional, just let us know with your post where they are/how you did them.
You are NOT required to make notes for a ballot to be valid, however I think it would be an understatement to say that all of the mappers for the contest would greatly appreciate your feedback on their maps if you have anything that particular stood out to you with each of their entries.

JUDGING PROCESS
Maps are going to be scored evenly between the public average (50%) and the judge's average (50%). Each map will be judged via three categories:
Criteria​
Weight​
Description​
Gameplay60%"A good map makes me want to play it more than once!"
Uniqueness25%"I don't just want to play DeGroot Keep 2!"
Aesthetics15%"An aesthetically-pleasing map draws me to a map in the first place!"
And here are some healthy guidelines for you when judging:

Gameplay: When judging gameplay, you want to achieve a solid blend of how the map feels to play, how balanced it is for both teams, and generally just how much fun you have while playing the map. You also want to strive for longevity; If a map gets boring after just a couple rounds, that's a bit of stale gameplay right there. Put simply, if you find yourself rtving often because of the map itself and not because you're a bit tired of medieval, that's probably a bad sign.
Uniqueness: Uniqueness is a blend of Gameplay and Aesthetics. This category is for how different you feel the map is from its predecessors in DeGroot Keep and Burghausen, be it in terms of gameplay, gamemode, or just the look of the map in general.
Aesthetics: When judging aesthetics, you always want to look for if the map, well, actually looks good or not, especially as a finished product. If a map has a buncha dev textures, it's not really going to look that great. Aesthetics entails soundscapes, visual clarity, and Optimization too though, so please don't just focus on the look and only the look! You also want to ask yourself if you feel medieval mode is justified in some way with the theme; If a map doesn't feel like medieval mode, then more people are going to be confused why it is medieval mode.
THE PLAN FOR THE MONTH
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For Ye Olde Conteste, since we had so many entries, we've decided to organize our map testing in this sort of way. The idea here is to provide equal opportunity for all of the maps, as well as the players. Having this here will hopefully let the tests be a bit more predictable for you as a voter, as we cannot guarantee all maps would ever be able to be fairly voted on if we were to just do voting 'off-the-cuff' if you will.

Questions are very much welcome, though please DM/ping myself or one of the judges via Discord, Steam, or TF2Maps instead of asking them in this thread. Keep the thread to just the votes, please!
 
Last edited:

Cass

L2: Junior Member
Nov 9, 2023
70
37
MapGameplayUniquenessDetailingNotes (Optional)
arena_jarl_b19
arena_joust_a3859It's small but it works super well.
arena_pithaul_b561010Very unique, the layout works pretty well.
cp_barracks_a410
cp_collliseum_a1473Gameplay spaces, aside from last, feel pretty decent, but the map is super blu sided from what I've seen. The fact that every door has some z fighting is also a bit unfortunate.
cp_fopdoodle_b25108The map is great and all, but playing some classes makes me want to peel my skin off.
cp_moby_a1a484This map isn't very engaging to play on, from my experience it's usually either blu can't cap first, or blu wins in 2 minutes. There's also areas with invisible walls and no clear indication of why you can't go there.
ctf_alexandria_a7a81010
ctf_caberville_a27106The map feels pretty good! My one gripe is that it feels a bit open, as in it's sorta hard to corner anyone.
ctf_drunkard_b4a5108The custom assets here are really cool, the gameplay spaces also feel pretty good. But somehow it also feels both impossible to attack and impossible to defend lol.
ctf_feed_a1d5107The surfaceprop of most terrain being meat is a bit annoying tbh, and it feels like it's too easy to cap. Other than that though, the map is really neat. The layout feels interesting and the theme is super unique.
ctf_jumannji_a1
ctf_tour_b6c7810The point def makes it a bit better, but it still feels impossible to defend the intel against a few dedicated scouts. Very nice job with the detailing.
dom_mercmania_a27106This map's environment is super cool. It also feels great to play. One thing I noticed is that the far clipping plane can sometimes cull the edge of the cave.
koth_rockefeller_a1N/A------This map sux ass I hope ur head explodes :mad:
koth_seashore_a3108
mech_outpost_a8
pd_ballista_b10684Pretty cool map, but taking damage every time you deposit is really annoying. You're also able to jump into the pit to escape any fight you don't want to take.
pd_engarde_a2585The map is pretty fun, but it gets repetitive since combat only really happens in a few areas. It's a bit hard to tell when the point is open (although that could just be a lack of attention on my part).
pl_basalt_event_b0N/A------This map is pretty cool I hope ur head doesn't explode :3
pl_furz_a4b5103This map's layout reminds me of doomgoose, it's pretty interesting. The fact that the spawn doors don't block projectiles is pretty annoying.
rd_august101_oldies_a2c585To be honest I don't really think this gamemode works, especially with medieval.
sd_rivermud_a5775Surprisingly fun. Aside from getting stuck in the lift occasionally this is a pretty good map.
 
Last edited:

bonez

L1: Registered
Jun 2, 2024
4
7
Scores are subject to change. Unsure if i'll do notes yet - probably wont be able to finish putting in all scores.... sorry!

Map​
Gameplay​
Uniqueness​
Detailing​
arena_jarl_b1
3​
6​
arena_joust_a3
5​
4​
7​
arena_pithaul_b5
6​
9​
9​
cp_barracks_a4
7​
10​
6​
cp_collliseum_a1
4​
3​
2​
cp_fopdoodle_b2
8​
9​
6​
cp_moby_a1
4​
4​
3​
ctf_alexandria_a7a
6​
6​
8​
ctf_caberville_a2
2​
3​
5​
ctf_drunkard_b4a
7​
7​
7​
ctf_feed_a1d
5​
7​
7​
ctf_jumannji_a1
2​
4​
2​
ctf_tour_b6c
10​
dom_mercmania_a2
8​
10​
5​
koth_rockefeller_a1
4​
4​
4​
koth_seashore_a3
6​
mech_outpost_a8
6​
8​
6​
pd_ballista_b10
3​
5​
4​
pd_engarde_a2
2​
3​
3​
pl_basalt_event_b0
6​
pl_furz_a4b
2​
3​
2​
rd_august101_oldies_a2c
4​
8​
3​
sd_rivermud_a5
5​
6​
3​
 
Last edited:

ArtZ

aa
Sep 15, 2022
100
22
Map​
Gameplay​
Uniqueness​
Detailing​
Notes​
arena_jarl_b1
6​
7​
8​
The U-shape of the map is an interesting idea and facilitates good medieval gameplay by funneling players into each other, but the small size and simplicity of the map causes rounds to get stale quickly due to the lack of variety in possible strategies. Rounds are pretty quick however, so there's not too much downtime sitting in spectator at least. The snowy fortress aesthetic is done very well and gives the map a cozy feeling, although I wish there were more dots of color besides the brown, gray, and white covering the map. The central statue is a great set piece.
arena_joust_a3
7​
8​
8​
Gameplay spaces are varied in shape and size, and there are enough options to choose from to allow for round-to-round strategic play. The catacomb provides a good flank route with a desirable full health kit, and is also a unique idea in terms of detailing. I really like how the buildings and lighting contrast each other at mid, and the map overall conveys a sense of being in an actual structure. However, the skybox is unfinished, the lighting is too dark in spots, and there is a lack of asymmetric detailing.
arena_pithaul_b5
9​
10​
10​
Upgrades spice up the limited arsenal you have in medieval dramatically, and this map's varied and engaging spaces full of height variation and options help make full use of them. The first team to 5 total as opposed to first to 3 in a row typical of arena both ensures players will earn enough money to purchase a variety of upgrades and possibly make a comeback, as well as making sure each full round has a definable end point. I didn't care to use any of the canteens most of the time when playing. The building shapes and compositions are on point, the pops of color provided by the autumn trees are gorgeous, and the overall detailing of the map delivers a consistent theme that is not explored often enough. My only complaint is the rock wall bordering the map with no signs of a world beyond it, however you don't really notice it when actually playing.
cp_barracks_a4
4​
8​
4​
Allied bots fighting alongside you sounds interesting, but the bots here are utterly inconsequential to the match as a whole, dealing pitiful damage with low health pools. Layout-wise the map is okay, although the long and open side flanks detract from the focus of the map. Last is too easily defended; the relatively long cap time, close spawn, and choked entrances all contribute to this and lead to long stalemates between teams. The detailing is blocky, barren, and unfinished, although the setting is interesting and the gloomy feeling caused by the overcast weather and drab buildings is cohesive.
cp_collliseum_a1
3​
3​
2​
Gravel Pit A/D is a proven gamemode when it comes to medieval, but only because the spaces were designed to better fit the needs of the mode. This includes both starting points being easily accessible to RED from their spawn, and a fairly short and focused area between those 2 points. This map attempts to combine the larger scale of a traditional Gravel Pit type map with the short cap times of DeGroot, which do not gel together at all. There is no point in the defending players rotating between points, as any focused attack or even stray capper on the opposite point ensures its quick, and permanent, capture. The final point, despite not providing the defense with any meaningful advantages itself, is RED's only hope to win as it is extremely close to their spawn and BLU must trek a long distance to reach it. Of the 28 rounds played on this map, RED won once, and they had to defend for over 12 minutes. There is almost no detailing to speak of, with the park and abstract seating area around point A being the nicest-looking section of the map.
cp_fopdoodle_b2
8​
9​
7​
What if instead of Freaky Fair it was the Renaissance Faire and you clashed swords and shot arrows? This map answers that question, providing focused and compact spaces set upon an island floating in some ethereal realm, with mysterious crystals dotting the sky around the island and on mid itself. I love the direction the detailing is headed, however it's still quite blocky and lacking finer details. A few more detailing passes could potentially make this into a very high-quality map.
cp_moby_a1a
7​
6​
4​
A straightforward 2 CP attack/defense map, the more traditional design lends itself to focused and engaging gameplay. However, I think it's scaled more like a stage of a multistage A/D map rather than a single-stage one, with the forward spawn feeling a bit unnecessary. It's a bit too easy to bypass the first point and flank to the enemy spawn or try to backcap. The points themselves cap a bit too quickly for RED's respawn time. The fishing town/dock setting is refreshing and allows for interesting geometry, especially on the ship. The setting is not fully realized though, only featuring basic texturing and shapes with minimal props or other details scattered about. Although the 3D skybox is unfinished too, it still adds a lot to the atmosphere of the map, despite some invisible walls you can walk straight into thinking it's gameplay space.
ctf_alexandria_a7a
8​
10​
9​
The spaces on this map feel and look great; the gamemode works very well with medieval mode, forcing players to pile up on the control point and mid in chaotic engagements for control of the bomb. The linear pathways help the defending team maintain control, although once the attacking team pushes in they can have a couple people hold down mid and keep control of the bomb somewhat easily unless a large push is made. Beyond a few rendering glitches and dev-textured blocks (and obelisks), this map is absolutely stunning visually. The environment, lighting, color, and asymmetric detailing blend into a beautifully cohesive theme that almost makes it feel like a finished product. The lack of soundscapes is unfortunate. Can't wait to see this one finished!
ctf_caberville_a2
4​
9​
6​
Slowing the intel carrier is a pretty basic solution to most classes not being able to catch up to them or use a ranged weapon to stop them, and while it does accomplish its goal somewhat, it's not very enjoyable for the carrier under its effect despite the mini-crits also granted to them. If any effort, coordinated or otherwise is made to stop the intel carrier, who is often alone, they're usually unable to fend off whatever mob swarms them. If the carrier manages to carry the intel near or past mid, the slowdown doesn't really even matter anymore as their teammates can dogpile the flag until they take it, especially with the refilling shotclock flag timer. I think the flags should be more difficult to reach, in more fortifiable structures so stopping the carrier before they leave is possible and so that the slowdown isn't needed. I really like the idea of the scrolls being in a different location depending on how many captures a team is up to, but the difficulty doesn't exactly scale appropriately if it's meant to. The grassy medieval village is a pleasant theme, though how it contextualizes the gamemode remains to be seen. Despite the unfinished detailing, what's here provides a decent and grounded look and feel of a village, with some interesting structure compositions and promising environments.
ctf_drunkard_b4a
7​
9​
8​
The open design of BLU's approach to the distillery combined with the more cramped spaces of the interior gives the map a very nice flow, and ensures attackers and defenders will actually engage with one another rather than the flag carrier easily running past everyone. There are a few issues though, for example BLU can get trapped from across the bridge since they respawn just as fast as RED and are thusly unable to easily overwhelm them in the first area. The area just before the furnaces is a bit too short and wide, preventing defenders from reliably predicting/stopping carriers once they reach this point. Other than those issues, it's very solid. The 3 capture zones that each disable after capture are interesting and make sense in the context of the map's setting, but don't really make things any more or less difficult for either team since they're all side by side. When it comes to the detailing, there is a lot of care put into the little details and decorations to really make it feel like an old brewery. That's not to mention the grander scale of the map, the buildings and environment looking great even while unfinished. I can tell this map is going to look beautiful when it's done.
ctf_feed_a1d
7​
10​
7​
The pit hungers for... classified information. In a metal briefcase. It's a bit too easy to deliver the intel, with the drop-off at mid and the intel being in front of spawn instead of in some kind of defendable bunker or room further back. Despite this, the map still has engaging areas to fight in with a jump pad gimmick that feels fun most of the time, although they can be frustrating when they don't send you where you want. The fleshy all-consuming mass encompassing the map is mostly complete in all its grotesque glory, although all of the manmade structures are still dev-textured. The buildings still have very nice composition however, and show promise.
ctf_jumannji_a1
-​
10​
2​
Never got to play this one. I'd wager that the combination of mannpower's large map sizes and medieval's need for more focused areas probably don't go together all that well, not to mention compounding the issue of catching the flag carrier. The building geo actually looks nice, but it's all dev-textures and the rest of the map is pretty simple-looking as well.
ctf_tour_b6c
8​
9​
9​
Unquestionably the mascot of this entire contest for me, as it's the one I playtested the most. The capture point to open the intel creates those classic and chaotic medieval fights as players dogpile on one another, and the intel itself is in a very defendable, but not unfair, position that requires a coordinated or large push to retrieve. Lowering the intel cap requirement from 3 to 2 helps simplify things for medieval and ensures rounds don't last too long, in addition to the round timer which I personally feel is unnecessary. Mid feels great to traverse, with plenty of options to use to approach the enemy base. The environment is very pretty, albeit somewhat unfocused, with a plethora of vibrant colors that draw your eye among the neutral tones of the surrounding buildings and partly cloudy sky. I wish there was a bit more asymmetry in the building shapes at mid besides one side being partially built.
dom_mercmania_a2
5​
10​
5​
Choosing what point you want to start at by launching to it is fun and different compared to the usual spawn lobby. The actual areas you fight in are either too cramped or too open, making for somewhat awkward and clumsy engagements. The central ring of B is especially weird to fight in due to the ropes bouncing players around. The gamemode works decently enough, with players able to retake points mostly due to the large width of the map. It is extremely difficult to make a comeback though unless you hold all 3 points for a while; there needs to be more difference between how fast you earn points and how many capture points you control. All of the main structures and blocks are dev-textured, but the theming for each area is still clear. The enormous cavern surrounding the map provides a great sense of scale, though it's unclear why this arena is here in the first place.
koth_rockefeller_a1
6​
7​
3​
Every room on this map feels very boxy and basic, but there is still decent flow and combat in spite of this. The double point capture required to start your team's timer countdown helps keeps players active by ensuring both points remain protected, and also opens up new opportunities when players decide to rotate. However, this requirement also creates the issue of guaranteed overtime for the losing team, as they can continually throw themselves at both if there's any cap progress and eventually overwhelm one of the points. In my opinion there should only be overtime if both points are contested, or no overtime at all, considering the timer can already be stopped by just capping one point. The detailing is very simple, comprised of blocky buildings and basic texturing with a select few structures/props reminding the player they are in an oilfield. There are also many dev-textures and bumpy displacements strewn about.
koth_seashore_a3
8​
8​
7​
Very focused routing and tight spaces create satisfying combat in this map. The point rising and falling with the tide is a very cool idea, and is executed well here although it can be a bit awkward to climb onto it from the water sometimes. Teams forward holding outside spawn is sometimes a problem, but the map is small enough for one or two players to slip past and make a break for the point, distracting enough players to create an opening. The back-and-forth was always solid on this map. I like the current theming, and the lighting is very nice, but it's still super unfinished. The current detailing is good, although the shape of the temple looking over mid could be more grandiose.
mech_outpost_a8
-​
10​
5​
Another map I never got to play. The mech is a super cool idea, though the gamemode seems to just be automated tug-of-war with a very large payload. I like how the speed increases over time, seems good for increasing tension and potentially solving stalemates. The Martian space base locale is presented well in the basic detailing that is present, but the empty areas do leave something to be desired.
pd_ballista_b10
6​
7​
4​
This map facilitates DM well enough, although the arenas are very simplistic and a little bit too big. Having to pass mid to reach your team's launcher portal is a different and interesting idea to replace timed drop zones, although the launch itself feels pretty jank. Teleporting out of the pit and taking fall damage doesn't feel great either. I appreciate the asymmetric detailing, but the actual look of it and the rest of the map is a collection of blocky, basic shapes with a constant gray cobblestone texture grating your eyes. Some of the buildings are just strange, like the hut outside red spawn. Everything feels unintentionally abstract.
pd_engarde_a2
4​
6​
2​
The cap zone being enabled for such a short period of time really drags out each round, especially when one team is practically guaranteed victory anyway. The areas in front of spawn have good height variation, but there's hardly ever fighting in them in favor of the sides of the fortress or camping out inside of it. Fighting in the fortress/cap zone is fun, but it's really easy to bump into the nearby columns and lose your sense of direction being attacked from all sides. There's an idea of a fortress surrounded by a town in the little detailing that is here, but nothing concrete.
pl_basalt_event_b0
5​
8​
3​
Extremely linear and simple allowing consistent action, but the lack of places to go makes repeat rounds get stale quickly. It's nice to see a medieval payload map, however I feel like rollback zones could have been utilized to create more intense pushes that group players together. The connections between different areas of the map don't feel fluid, like everything is just a little off. I can't say that I've ever seen another map that looks quite like this one, but I also can't say that I like how it looks. I'm unsure whether it's supposed to be an actual volcano or something more nonsensical. The all-black rock is a pretty boring sight, with the best-looking part of the map being the final castle area.
pl_furz_a4b
3​
6​
1​
This version doesn't have flashbangs, and is better for it. Even then, the whole layout pretty much works towards an easy steamroll for BLU, giving them height advantage, a free shortcut/flank directly to the B cart path, and spaces way too large for medieval that make constricting attackers very difficult. The best part of the map is around the first checkpoint and sorta just goes downhill from there. The only detailing in this map can be found in the form of contextual props, other than that it's just abstract dev-textured blocks and pieces with almost zero hint of a possible theme or location. If you miss the flashbangs, just walk into the building next to the roll-forward zone leading to the first checkpoint.
rd_august101_oldies_a2c
3​
7​
4​
Destroying robots and getting points seemingly at random feels pretty bad, like the map is just wasting the player's time. The spaces on the map can feel fun to fight in, but they feel haphazardly put together with tons of steep displacements and ledges to get caught up on. Once a team pushes into the base it can be pretty easy to spawncamp. Also, the bases are rotationally symmetrical, but mid uses mirror symmetry, so the map actually has an asymmetric layout. Detailing is rudimentary, the idea of two factories displayed but unfinished with only the RED base's exterior being textured, and the BLU base being a dev-textured copy of RED base. The silos on fire are eye-catching, but an explanation or context of some sort for them is absent.
sd_rivermud_a5
5​
7​
3​
90 degree mirror symmetry is cool to see, and the size of the map is good, but all of the itty bitty ledges and platforms stacked on top of each other makes the map a bit annoying to traverse. The "rocket" platform rises a bit too fast when capping; it doesn't have as much ground to cover as the elevator on Doomsday so it should be slower. I really like the scenic waterfall location for the australium despite it still being blocky, but the rest of the map doesn't have even that level of detail put into it. It's mostly composed of gray dev textures and uninteresting structures besides the 2 towers overlooking mid. Still, I believe there's potential in the layout and a real artpass would be cool to see!
 
Last edited:

Switchgeer

Professional Drywall Licker
aa
Jun 27, 2019
61
18
Alright, here's my votes! They're not all finished, but it's as finished as they're getting since there aren't anymore tests happening.
If you want feedback, there should be more in depth stuff in the link.
Screenshot 2024-11-27 101617.png
 

FlipFTW

L1: Registered
Jul 12, 2020
17
22

1733013315388.png



Tour is a very IGN 7/10 map. The concept of A/D transitioning into a final push for a CTF is a very novel and exciting one, but I don’t think the map does enough to really capitalize on this feeling of a final “push” and “hold”.

When dealing with a "compressed" layout I think its more important to have dynamic elements to keep aspects of replayability

Tour doesn't manage to sidestep the "anti-climatic" nature of CTF either - especially in medieval where mobility after grabbing the flag is everything, it can feel helpless as there is essentially no counter to a demoman charging away with the intel (little counterplay).

I also would have liked to see maybe more of a "see-saw" mechanic, currently there isn't really much of a back-and-forth, I think with more events and focus on the capping turning into a focused A/D you could really have the peaks of messy melees with focused objectives (vs being all around the map)

Overall a great entry, I really hope radial continues to refine the gamemode, as I think 80% of the map is solid, and its only lacking a the 20% smidge to be exceptionally great.
Arena is a very challenging gamemode to balance and pace for, I already gave my thoughts in a comment on the map page, reproduced here for ease of access

Hi

Played Jarl as part of the hybrid map test recently - was thinking about the map more.

Never been a fan of arena but Jarl actually interested me as playing quite well - I think many of the problems with arena (heavy encouragement to stall, playing around uber, last man stalling) are quietly resolved by medieval, so I think the blending of the two gamemodes struck me as a surprisingly enjoyable fusion (great insight or instincts!)

I actually feel quite guilty leaving feedback because I wasn't sure if this "solving' was serendipitous or not, but ultimately it doesn't matter - I think it does work and has something to say (hey this works! check it out!) - but with that there are still more problems/challenges to solve.

1) Repetition

Arena rounds are FAST. I think people often talk about how KOTH vs PL is harder to map for in terms of longevity because people feel they've seen and experienced all the map quite quickly - I think Arena has this problem on steroids.

A person I was playing with mentioned that they thought the map was fun - but it was missing a dynamic element - I couldn't help tossing over this idea in my mind and ended up wondering if there was a solution for both.

random suggestion - maybe have more dynamic spawns, I see 2-3 areas that I think (given the size and scale of the map) could make for alternative spawn rooms. I think the repetition from always having enemies come from the same direction does result in some pre-firing, prechaging and etc that if you don't like could help mitigate.

OFC if you don't view this as a problem and think its part of the dynamic (adapting to repetitive strategies) that's fine as well

2) Tension (Snowballing)

Arena rounds often have this big issue where the ending is typically a 1v4+ scenario where there isn't realistically a way to comeback. The cap point prevents stalling but this is not only "lame" but also anticlimactic - as forcing a conflict generally just will result in the obvious play happening.

I would consider alternative victory conditions for the "losing team". Consider how the Halloween lumberyard has a pre-point unlock legendary spell to discourage solely camping point.

Suggestions:
  • Having a "relay" - last player alive must touch 4 points (one in each corner of map) - if they do so they win (or receive significant buff)
  • Having a "survival" - last player marked/outline/given intel - must survive for period of time? (Change winning team from camping to hunting)
  • Having a "delivery" - last player(s) must
  • Have a "debuff" - players alive on advantaged team are marked for death / milked

these are just various ideas with inbuilt problems as well - but just some random thoughts to get your own creative ideas flowing.

On this topic, first blood crits contributes majorly in medieval toward one team having a large initial advantage, even if you are against comeback mechanics such as the above - I think the crits can result in largely helpless/lost rounds VERY quick.

Finally, I think the underpass is not as engaging as the previous slow gate design.
Formerly - I recall that while there was a front enterence the back enterance had quite a delayed opening - this resulted in the flank becoming unsafe after a reasonable period of time, now the closest distance to combat is under the spawns - likely precharging the tunnel. This can end up being a bit degerate and I dont think this gameplay space is built to handle a collision of the teams (what it may degerate to given its importance and medium health pack).

Hopefully random ramblings help - I understand there is not much time left in the contest but I'd feel remiss if I didn't at least verbalize some of my thoughts - hopefully you find them insightful!

-Flip
This maps main claim to fame is that it is simultaneously 2cp.
At first I was excited to explore the idea of this change, but honestly it doesn't really promote great gameplay, you lose the highs of giant clusters of medieval while also having awkward lulls in the combat. I think the geometry of the map also doesn't lend itself too well, respawn WALKS feel a bit long, tiny doorways/tunnels can make combat in/out/around them awkward.

I also think there is a bit of a lacking replay-ability issue, there isn't much to do beyond cycle around the 20% of the map surrounding each point, so there is a very little area to spend a lot of time in.

I don't know what I might suggest, but I think a dynamic element would go a long way to replayability, currently the experience can drag on a bit on repeated rounds
Aesthetically this map is really attention grabbing, the little nodules serving as jump pads are interesting... but its really a shame its ctf and it almost feels as if it really wasn't meant to be a medieval map. I can't help but praise the unique style, but in terms of tone and gameplay this suffers from all the problems you might expect from medieval CTF.
I've really struggled to understand the vision with this map - on one hand i really want to give respect to the mapmaker for tacking a less-popular mode, but i think in practice the gamemode is not integrated at all with the map, and the combat feels very vapid - there is little real gameplay beyond .

I think many aspects of this map suffer from a lack of focus, if there was a central control or a rotating contested area where both teams bots go through maybe I could find more appeal, but it ends up currently as just a "sandbox" gamemode more than a coherent experience.
This map stumbled quite a bit in development, but I think the decision to change it from steal the intel to deliver&explode was a good one, unfourntantly the geometry really neuters the gameplay and potentional of the map, as the attacking routes both boil into essentailly the same choke outside of the red spawn.

Overall I think this is an idea with a lot of potential that didn't really get fully realized/developed. I'd really love to see the mapmaker attempt to develop the idea out more, currently it ends up being a very forceful mindless "crash" combat.
When thinking of medieval, I think that having a "sumo" tug-of-war does suit it quite well. I do like that the mapmaker has also implemented faster cart - meaning the gamemode has escalating tension/pace (at least theoretically). I am not a fan of the doors opening beyond a push point though, as I think this often leads to the winning team pushing an advantaged even more (and resulting in spawncamping/other more awkward aspects.

Overall a good idea in bringing a focused objective that is surprisingly fun to parkour/play around, map isn't the most aesthetically understandable/suitable for medieval, but I had an enjoyable time.
A very solid map, I found the gameplay surrounding the CTF bomb quite enjoyable, though I think there was often a lot of struggle for players to actually play around their "bomber" or against it. I do think that having a tight "shot clock" time pressure for the bomb carrier to make a push would greatly accelerate the pace and so enjoyability of the gamemode.

other than that I think my only complaint is that I would have liked some finale geometry that gives a little bit of a meaning to the detonations - I do think that the exploding on deaths is quite fun, but it also lends to one team all respawning at once, in which case a moshpit (the most powerful medieval structure) will form for one team that often results in another sweep.

Also to encourage more see-saws, I think it might make sense to give the team gets scored on possession of the bomb so that it doesn't end up as consistent rolls. Overall not really sure the egypt theme meshes, but didn't find it overly distracting, just unusual in a "fridge-door" moment.
Engerde is a very claustrophobic map that I think highlights some of the more awkward elements of medieval. I think the delays between the zone activating and nature of PD is very awkward - for starters the "team leader" having effectively a pseudo-pocket-medic makes a lot of combat against them unfun, this doubles as high-mobility and damage classes already have a significant advantage in base medieval.

The slow cap aspect of PD also ends up backfiring as often there is a ton of points on a player slowly waiting for the zone to activate, and there isn't much counterplay to sitting indoors as pushing through the claustrophobic doors is not too viable, and often ends up just feeding the moshpit more points.

In short, moshpit -> op, map encourages moshpit -> quite miserable if you aren't the moshpit.
I don't think this map changed at all during the playtests I did, in short I think making a few weapon adjustments was an interesting idea, but the map did not really do enough to support this idea, also the water combat was relatively awkward, with it quite easy to get jankily caught on the rising/lowering platforms. Overall I would have liked to see a more dynamic element... wait i wrote a review for this already:

Hi!

Played seashore quite a few times now (Maybe 4-5 times in play-tests?) and couldn't help thinking about the map and sort of brainstorming out more ideas and thoughts on the "balance adjustments". Thought I'd take the time to write out some thoughts on the forum - hopefully they drive inspiration or have a few nuggets of useful ideas.

First - lets discuss the dynamic element, there is a cycling tide moving the point up and down (and introducing a fair bit of offshore water combat). The point itself for how important it is ends up being quite awkward to play around - TF2 with its sort of "ledge-swimming" mechanic ends up for a lot of non-intuitive "bobbing".. overall it ends up leaving me with the question of how the map SIGNIFICANTLY changes around the "Water" mechanic.

I think with the tides and the floating point it feels like there is a bit of missed potential in what the water actually does!
Random Suggestions:

  • Have there be more elements that "float" to significantly change the layout of the point surroundings when the tide comes in
  • Have the tide affect mobility - have a tide "sweep" players toward the shore - can be used as a quick escape or a chase mechanic
  • Have the point "drift" - help the team that doesn't own the point by attacking it by having it drift closer to the side that could use help (expose it to the team that needs to retake it to help counterbalance rolls)

Besides that for the balance suggestions - this is a fine line to walk, personally I think the changes are a bit timid, the banners for example realistically rarely fill, usually as a result of instant killing any other half-zat player, so making them charge faster is relatively non-consequential.

I would be tempted to make it fill in as little as 2 hits (100 damage), even if this resulted in more people using banners, I feel it would be a welcome change over the demoknight-meta...

More aggressive changes like this would be interesting, but I suppose there is a risk of having the balance changes overshadow your actual map!
Feel free to reach out to me for more balancing discussion or to elaborate or clarify any of the above. I hope you continue to develop the map and I'm excited to see how it lands!

Best of luck - Flip
A very interesting idea, but feels completely abandoned in terms of balance/updates. Maybe as a sort of teaser the idea of having "gates" where you can't bring your powerup through could create powerful zones and vulnerable areas. Overall doesn't feel great to fight people with no counterplay, and there isn't really too much of a way to avoid this... would require a lot of rebalancing that I don't think this entry ended up managing to do.
I found Fopdoodle to be a very chaotic yet enjoyable experience. The progression of upgrades is quite crazy, but despite having played it several times the rounds are quite dynamic - with some amount of tactic-swapping in every instance. I do wish there was a way to avoid the - people in spawn picking upgrades instead of fighting - but this may just be an inherent flaw I can't think of an easy solution to currently. (I did consider a forward upgrade station, but this feels like it would be a win more solution)

I don't think the geometry of the map is too enjoyable, verging on too many tight corridors which make melee combat awkward, and I think the aesthetics are quite unappealing (also not really matching any medieval style)
I think the hardest thing about pithaul to stomach is the balance is very all over the place. There were some aspects of the game that were unfun (mad milk), some aspects I thought were ok (ranged weapons), but with all those removed essentially the only viable playstyle is melee, likely as just demoknight. Especially with the HP packs on the edges having high mobility is important.

Overall the gameplay doesn't really end up having an "appealing" aspect to many classes, I think it must be hard to balance, but the lack of viable choices on many classes was a bit disapointing, I think having more aggressive changes like seashore would fit with the already distant (from base tf2) canteens.

Aesthetically a nice map, though I found the geometry getting a bit stale on repeated playthroughs.
Ballista to me felt like a very weak PD map. The central area of control doesn't really control the cap zone (its hard to prevent high mobility characters from scoring even if you are trying to "Defend", and you can't score points by simply owning the mid so often times people suicide into the enemy teams area... out of boredom. I think the set piece is interesting (launching into the ballista) but I don't think that there is a well integrated aspect of... how PD fits into the picture.

Also geometrically, the distance/time to the flanks is really long for no reason considering there is almost no way to hold a "choke" in medieval - so why would a long rotation be necessary?

Aesthetically the ballista is nice, but the rest of the map feels quite empty.
3 points is interesting, but this often results in many people just being very spread out and the action feeling quite empty. The launch pads causing fall damage if you strafe is annoying, the jump pads implemented in a way that removes all air control is disapointing - it makes you very vulnerable to snipers who can sort of camp at the top and even if they don't land an easy headshot you get launched far enough that you can't do much.

Maybe would be interesting if only one point was active at a time (now the bonus ducks are over there) to keep the "focused" aspect while still allowing for dynamic rotations.

Aesthetically interesting, fun to imagine the sort of "sport" melee event.
medieval PL is an interesting prospect because the cart serving as a centralizing element could mean an easy roll, but I think in practice it also serves as cover from the red arrow-siege fire.

The map has an intense pushing aspect with reasonable flanks, and a satisfying push aspect when overcoming obstacles.

overall I think the map handles itself very well and the theme of the ashen castle is an interesting one I'm not sure I've ever seen in tf2 before.
i think Rivermud suffers from some disjointed ideas and a very anticlimatic finale. Essentially it suffers almost like CTF where the hardest thing is getting possession, and then both teams needing to go the furthest end of the map to capture the intel ends up with a very awkward "slow painful death". There also being no shotclock leads to essentially slow "waiting" gameplay with not much happening. I'm additionally not a fan of the health as this disproportionally affects some classes over others, and especially outside of spawn can be used to effectively camp outside of his spawn.
Interesting concept of intel moving per cap, but map is so empty with defense being very "defense by boredom" that it ends up just being sort of disorganized chaos. I think the intel carrier being slowed is alright to balance around high mobility, but I think that the intel decays too slowly resulting in a sort of overdefensive waiting around for action boredom.

Aesthetically I think its actually TOO medieval, feels a bit bland - I think maybe having more iconic landmark geometry would have helped.
Very flat, sort of empty map, there is little geometry to play off, being a small arena map there is an aspect of replayability that is lacking. Overall I think there isn't much on this map to bite onto, so it ends up falling a bit flat for me.
Colliseum is a very messy map that I don't think really fits as a medieval map, where it feels like it wasn't meant to be one, doesn't really aesthetically look like one. I think the map needs a serious redesign with the melee combat as a focus.
(Barracks, Furz, and Moby skipped due to lack of experience)
As always, feel free to reach out to me (preferably on discord: FlipFTW#0777) if you are interested in any elaborations on my comments or desire any additional insights/opinions.

Thanks to all mappers for their submissions - it was a joy to see so many different styles and creative spins on the medieval genre. I sincerely hope that the mapmakers continue to develop their maps and explore new ideas, refining their skills along the way. Every map, no matter the feedback, is a testament to the effort and creativity that goes into crafting something unique. Even harsh critiques are meant to guide growth and improvement, not to dishearten.

Keep pushing boundaries, experimenting with designs, and sharing your creations with the community. Your work inspires others and keeps the mapping scene alive and thriving. I’m excited to see how these maps evolve and to witness the incredible projects you’ll bring to life in the future.

Happy mapping, and best of luck on your continued journeys!
 
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