[WIP] pl_haywood

[Laz]

more screens from my beta version: still some more detailing to do in a couple of areas.
A nice slideshow!

original resolution screens

 

[Vander]

Looking really good! Can't wait to try it out.

 

[Laz]

thanks, redrum is giving me some heavy critiques, so expect gameday version to look better

 

[Laz]

well my rockfaces look alot better now, and some other texturing issues have been solved, there is a bit more atmospheric lights in shadow areas.
Just gonna fill up some empty areas a bit before releasing a beta

 

[Laz]

beta submitted

http://forums.tf2maps.net/showthread.php?t=2827

 

[MangyCarface]

Laz,

I noticed we skipped this for gameday today, so I put it on tonight and got a bunch of people together to play it. The map looks great! It's also pretty well balanced. Everyone enjoyed it for about an hour. Things I have to comment on (the negatives, as I mentioned everyone liked it ) :
Add another stage! I want to see more of your style.
Stage 2-3, don't allow Blue to get so close to Red's spawn gates so early on. Spawn camping could arise.
Add a beautiful skybox! The cliff is a cool feature but looks weird without a skybox.
Increase the radius both upwards and outwards of the payload's acceptable area. You can jump once off the top and the cart will move, feels weird. Only needs to be minimal.
The area from point 2-1 to 2-2 is wayyy too empty/large. There's that whole left area which isn't really used at all. Maybe recycle it for a third stage
The cap on point 1-2 can trap the player if he's riding in front of the cart. Was pretty funny.

Anyway, this was a real surprise to me in a happy way, when I booted it up and realized it didn't get play time I made sure it did. Great job so far!

 

[flubber]

Hi,
We tested it yesterday on a 24 server, things that were sayed (for the 14 people on the TS). First that cam out was a quake/tfc touche, clearly a soldier map especially on part 2. A lot of acces to really high places are open (over cliff or roof)

Part 1
- The shortcut acces to defend the 1st CP should be closed after it's taken, with that red need a longer secondary accees in order to make spy less useless for instance.
- Had a spawn bug a red spy has spawwned in red spawn (happened jsut once)
- Red Spawn on part 1-2 is way to close from the final point

Part 2
- Love the pyro blast to throw people in the void
- Love the "verticality" of the map
- Final part is really hard to take.
- Need a longuer secondary acces for attack on the beginning of this part.

I put it in our customs map test server rotation in order to have more feedback, if you like to see the gameplay on a full server (217.70.189.157:27016).

 

[Laz]

thanks alot for all the feedback! Im currently working on a new payload style gameplay type, but that should be working in a few days, then Ill get back to adjusting haywood part 1 of stage 2 needs to feel smaller.

more player clips will be added for cliffs and stuff, Ill make the respawn time for red on part 2 of stage 1 a bit longer, to compensate for it being so close to the final cap. and add a 3d skybox, and attempt an explosion

 

[nossie]

hey

awesome map i tested it this morning (or last night for u... :S lol with mangy )
few things... i find that the rooms and corridors seem a bit big?.. i dont really no whats wrong with it... the 2nd stage particularly at the beginning...

also on the second stage umm as u go up the ramp (where cart starts) on the right i think it is theres a cliff or something? and a platform above it... if u stand on the platform and look down u see threw the displacment... just a little gap thats all nothing major.

Increase the radius both upwards and outwards of the payload's acceptable area. You can jump once off the top and the cart will move, feels weird. Only needs to be minimal.

im not exactly sure what u ment there but i had a prob with the cart where it sorta felt like i got stuck in it... might be the lag tho (had like 190 ping (GO AUSTRALIA!)

otherwise great map

 

[Laz]

yeah when I was building part 1 of stage 2, I was really dragging myself through it, and forcing myself not to give up and that kind of shows. Im probably gonna give that area a total makeover.

 

[Laz]

omg some guy even made an movie
[ame="http://www.dailymotion.com/teamfortressheadquarter/video/x63p11_preview-plhaywoodbeta_videogames"]Video Preview pl_haywood_beta - pl_haywood, pl, haywood, team, tf2hq - Dailymotion Share Your Videos[/ame]
Ive seen some overview screens that some people made as well. and it's downloadable from several other websites as well now! this is a first for me

 

[Armadillo of Doom]

lol grats m8.

 

[Laz]

some site reviewed it with only a 6 on style. but hey, it's beta, Ill show em in my final version damnit

 

[Laz]

added skybox, looks great ! will post some pics

 

[flubber]

Have to remove it in its current state, blue win once and that was in order to see the map with all red ot shooting, i think there is a real problem in part 1 for the offense.
(http://psychostats.canardplus.com/map.php?id=52 if you wat the heatmap i can arrange it)

 

[Laz]

heatmap would be great.

I have a new version in the pipes,
where the shortcutdoor from red spawn gets shut off when the first point is capped. also some other minor changes, like increased spawntimes for red on stage 1 after first cap

 

[flubber]

You'll have it by tomorrow (our heatmap are generated late at night (for france)).

 

[Chilly]

We had this 7-7 or 8-8 on our server last night and everyone seemed to enjoy it. A couple of things we noticed:

1. Blue can shoot out of the spawn during setup.
2. Red can enter the blue spawn area after setup. They can't actually get into the single spawn room, but the expected behavior is that they shouldn't be able to enter any area that's blocked off during setup.
3. The timers seem off. It's almost too high for the first part and then it adds very little time once you reach the first checkpoint. Do you have it capped or is this really a bug? I made the mistake of telling spacemonkey his timers were broke on pl_cave when they were really just capped at 10. In any case, the timers seem a bit high anyway.
4. Blue NEVER won stage 1 in 6 tries. I'll detail below where I think the problem is.
5. I'm sure you know since it's just a beta, but many of the tunnels can use additional details like supports on the walls, posters, props, perhaps some windows/skylights, etc. They're just very long and plain right now. They really stood out since you have some beautiful details elsewhere on the map.
6. The left exit from the blue spawn, you can build on the gate on the floor before it opens. The result is a hovering sentry/dispenser over the gap. Not a big deal since it can't hit much, but a heavy could sit below and get healed from an invulnerable dispenser.
7. The first stage is VERY sniper friendly. 2 excellent snipers can lock it down more than any stage on Dustbowl or Gold Rush. Some additional cover would be nice. Perhaps a shack or small building in the middle of the first section?

Now, the reasons I think the attackers failed. The first part was them not knowing of the lower passage through right away which made a choke point in the narrow upper hall. This will be partially fixed once people learn the map more.

Second, once they were aware of the lower passage, they were able to get through the upper path more easily. The issue at this point was that there are still only 2 ways through the map, which can both be covered by sentries, snipers, demomen, and soldiers quite easily. I'd suggest one (or both) of 2 fixes. You could try adding an additional path that exits on the opposite end from the red spawn. There's an upper path in the blue area that really doesn't go anywhere, so perhaps make it a 1-way door that exits into the back stair area.

The other fix would be to add more cover for the lower passage so teams are rewarded for using it. Right now if they go through their only 2 options are to rush at the defender's base or take a really long walk back through the stairway to get to the cart. I'd love to see some easier way of getting back up top from down there that would also provide cover from the snipers.

Finally, people were right about the bridge... it's too narrow and too long. The only real way to finish the stage would be for your entire team to spawn camp red while 1-2 people push the cart down that last section of track. Making red's respawn take longer is definitely an option. Another would be to make a defensive ledge on the back side of red's spawn building and a door from the first section that opens once the checkpoint is passed. That way the attackers would have a much easier time making a hard push through. If you do this, you might want to consider moving the checkpoint back a couple of sections so that whole part of the map isn't bypassed.

I don't think a heatmap will help too much since most of the fighting was happening away from the cart and spread out, since it's very hard to get to the cart on the bridge without getting engaged first.

Overall an excellent start. I wish I would have gotten to see more of it.

 

[Laz]

thanks for the large explenation. really cleared up some things.
the reason some halls are not detailed yet, is because I know there would be balance issues there, and they would require moving around and adjusting.
You gave some good insights on certain problems, and also providing usefull suggestions.

Many thanks, i will continue work !

 

[Laz]

We had this 7-7 or 8-8 on our server last night and everyone seemed to enjoy it. A couple of things we noticed:

1. Blue can shoot out of the spawn during setup.

1. 
   Yeah I know, It was one of those things I wanted to expiriment with, see how it would affect things.
   

   [*]Red can enter the blue spawn area after setup. They can't actually get into the single spawn room, but the expected behavior is that they shouldn't be able to enter any area that's blocked off during setup.

   I will consider this
   

   [*]The timers seem off. It's almost too high for the first part and then it adds very little time once you reach the first checkpoint. Do you have it capped or is this really a bug? I made the mistake of telling spacemonkey his timers were broke on pl_cave when they were really just capped at 10. In any case, the timers seem a bit high anyway.

   I just put in what felt right at the time, didnt put much thought in, I will adjust these.
   

   [*]I'm sure you know since it's just a beta, but many of the tunnels can use additional details like supports on the walls, posters, props, perhaps some windows/skylights, etc. They're just very long and plain right now. They really stood out since you have some beautiful details elsewhere on the map.

   These areas require balancing. no reason in detailing if I am gonna change them anyways.
   

   [*]The left exit from the blue spawn, you can build on the gate on the floor before it opens. The result is a hovering sentry/dispenser over the gap. Not a big deal since it can't hit much, but a heavy could sit below and get healed from an invulnerable dispenser.

   Will make it unbuildable.
   

   [*]The first stage is VERY sniper friendly. 2 excellent snipers can lock it down more than any stage on Dustbowl or Gold Rush. Some additional cover would be nice. Perhaps a shack or small building in the middle of the first section?

   got it. more cover.
   

   Second, once they were aware of the lower passage, they were able to get through the upper path more easily. The issue at this point was that there are still only 2 ways through the map, which can both be covered by sentries, snipers, demomen, and soldiers quite easily. I'd suggest one (or both) of 2 fixes. You could try adding an additional path that exits on the opposite end from the red spawn. There's an upper path in the blue area that really doesn't go anywhere, so perhaps make it a 1-way door that exits into the back stair area.

   was attempting to promote usage of spies that underpass is designed with them in mind
   

   The other fix would be to add more cover for the lower passage so teams are rewarded for using it. Right now if they go through their only 2 options are to rush at the defender's base or take a really long walk back through the stairway to get to the cart. I'd love to see some easier way of getting back up top from down there that would also provide cover from the snipers.

   very good point.
   
   
   
   I will add an extra way in from part to part 2 that opens when you cap the first point.