[WIP] ctf_arch

Discussion in 'WIP (Work in Progress)' started by ProfFiendish, Dec 27, 2008.

  1. ProfFiendish

    ProfFiendish L2: Junior Member

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    UPDATE: ctf_arch_a2

    My second release, now PLAYABLE with player clips, working doors, and pakrat. I made a few major changes to the layout, moving the flag into a completely new building behind each base, while trying to keep the map relatively small. Please leave comments! Screenshots in post on last page.


    ctf_arch_a1:

    Here we go! This is my first release, so be sure to alert me to any noob mistakes I might be making. At the moment, because this is just an alpha release, I'm looking more for comments and criticism relating to the layout, more than the textures/props (yes, I know my displacement textures are wonky :unsure: )

    My hope for ctf_arch is that it'll be fun even with very small teams (like 4v4). Because of the small size of the map players will have to be more aggressive, even on defense. Each side consists of two buildings, one housing the flag, and one housing the spawnrooms and the capture point. Between the bases lies a rather large natural arch, which functions as another route to travel from one base to the other. There is also a tight underground passage for flanking classes like pyros and spies.

    BLU base:
    [​IMG]

    RED base:
    [​IMG]

    The namesake Arch:
    [​IMG]

    BLU's flagroom:
    [​IMG]

    BLU's capture point:
    [​IMG]

    Entrance to underground route:
    [​IMG]

    Questions I'd like help with:
    1. Obviously the area between the bases is pretty wide open. Are snipers too powerful in this part or is this a non-issue?
    2. Scouts seem to be able to dash between the sides very quickly. Are scouts too powerful on this map because of this?

    Download thread:
    http://forums.tf2maps.net/showthread.php?t=4687
     
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    Last edited: Feb 21, 2009
  2. Xi.Cynx

    aa Xi.Cynx Former Alias: †Blade†

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    Where exactly are the spawn rooms at? The position of these can determine the scout factor a lot.
    You should make the capture zone on a mini platform like... 16 units higher too. just My opinion though, looked to flat there.
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2008
  3. ProfFiendish

    ProfFiendish L2: Junior Member

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    Alright, I'll add platforms for the capture areas. I think that's a good idea.

    Each team has two spawn rooms: both are in the capture point building, but one is upstairs and one is downstairs.
     
  4. Xi.Cynx

    aa Xi.Cynx Former Alias: †Blade†

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    hmmm, having one upstairs and one downstairs isn't bad. But... Make sure the base that has one downstairs takes a little longer to get out of, not much just like a second or two. that way one team doesn't have an advantage of getting out to the middle just a little earlier. And is the the intel room easily accessible from both spawns to defend quick enough before a scout gets over there? at least to get a level 1 sentry up? Can one team get there faster and set up a sentry before the other one because of spawn locations?
     
  5. ProfFiendish

    ProfFiendish L2: Junior Member

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    Ah, I think you misunderstood... EACH team has TWO 8-man spawnrooms. (There are FOUR spawnrooms in my map). It's perfectly symmetrical, so no one team has a time advantage.

    As for engi's getting a sentry up... I think an engi spawning upstairs might, but not one spawning downstairs.
     
  6. Xi.Cynx

    aa Xi.Cynx Former Alias: †Blade†

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    Ahh, yes I did misread. Lol. Thought you said there are 2 spawn rooms, one for each team. =P
     
  7. ProfFiendish

    ProfFiendish L2: Junior Member

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  8. The Asylum

    aa The Asylum

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    I think a nice overhead view of the entire map would be good in determining the effectiveness of Snipers.
     
  9. Zmathue

    Zmathue L2: Junior Member

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    ohh, I forgot to mention this in chat if you jump on the flagrooms roof then you can walk off/under the map.
     
  10. ProfFiendish

    ProfFiendish L2: Junior Member

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    Sorry about that :) Haven't gotten around to player clipping yet, so that will have to wait for the next release ;)

    I'll be gone for about a week, so Happy New Year everyone.
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2008
  11. Nineaxis

    aa Nineaxis Quack Doctor

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    Yeah, it was particularly bad because engies could jump out of the map and build sentries under the floor.
     
  12. ProfFiendish

    ProfFiendish L2: Junior Member

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    UPDATE: ctf_arch_a2

    NEW Download minus the fail: http://forums.tf2maps.net/downloads.php?do=file&id=1032

    My new release is fully playable, and problems from the first release have been fixed. The mid-map is much the same as before, but the flags have been moved to a building behind each team's spawns, making the map larger and protecting the flag more. Scouts may still be too powerful, but I'm not sure about this yet.

    BLU's base, showing new routes to the yard behind the spawn building:
    [​IMG]

    The titluar arch:
    [​IMG]

    Stairs and ramps in RED's base:
    [​IMG]

    To the BLU intel:
    [​IMG]

    I'm looking for comments about class balance (scouts in particular) so that I can make ctf_arch fun for small teams of many different class combinations.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2009
  13. ProfFiendish

    ProfFiendish L2: Junior Member

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  14. ProfFiendish

    ProfFiendish L2: Junior Member

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    Okay, never mind with commenting on my WIP thread. I have a good plan for a simple way to change ctf_arch for the sakes of optimization. It will also make mid-map slightly more epic.

    Thank you, Mangy Carface!
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2009
  15. krik3t

    krik3t L2: Junior Member

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    After playing on gameday:

    - map is way too small. Before I can set sentry in intel room, there was a scout and killed me. It takes about 15 sec for scout to cap intel. I think its very short time

    - spawn rooms can be very easily camped

    - cap point on other place than inteligence spawn is rather confusing. People just run around with intel and don't know where to cap it.

    - when you set sentry on arch you can control almost whole enemy base (front of it). With two sentrys one team can't leave base at all.

    - rooms an corridors in bases are very small
     
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  16. Apom

    Apom L6: Sharp Member

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    Hey, I played this on game day, it looks interesting so far (although there may be too many non-intersecting routes, you may want to remove the underground one for instance). I have three main complaints:

    - a capture zone at a different place than the intel is really confusing. You should probably stick to TF2 conventions and have both in the same place. This is especially true as there isn't a single arrow to point to the capture zone (while the intel itself is very well indicated).

    - you should probably plant some rock props (or anything to your taste) on top of that arch, or it's going to be sniper heaven. Maybe not so dominating over the entire map, but undoubtly over the arch itself.

    - in the attached screenshot, I just grabbed BLU's intel and want to rocket jump over that wall, because it's got to be much faster right? Unfortunately I can't, because it's player clipped. You should make it obvious.
     
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  17. Zmathue

    Zmathue L2: Junior Member

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    No, I really enjoyed the many routes, especially the underground.
     
  18. KarmaKaze

    KarmaKaze L2: Junior Member

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    Love the arch. That high ground is very valuable in game.

    Two big things for me were the spawn seemed a little too easy to camp.
    And I am also not a big fan of not taking the intel back to other intel spot. (But I am sure I could get over this with some more games on this map...so not a game breaker for me.

    And I give a thumbs up on the many routes too.

    I think this is gonna be a good one.
     
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  19. MrAlBobo

    MrAlBobo L13: Stunning Member

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    absolutely loved the map, high ground that both teams can reach is always a win in my opinion...as for scout balance I really couldn't tell you, mainly because I was a scout the entire time <_<
    during gameday snipers had minimal influence on the game, though I happen to think the people playing sniper were just having an off day or something
    one thing im really not sure about is that large flat area above the capture zone and how easily you can reach it, frequently I ran up the arch jumped right off the side of the arch closest to my team, dropped down and ran into the intel room, and as someone else said, that took less then 15 seconds...id think sliding the left part of the building back a bit so scouts need to cross part of the arch would help that...or people could learn to help engies setup...
     
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  20. ProfFiendish

    ProfFiendish L2: Junior Member

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    First of all, thanks to all of you for your very useful comments. My planned mid-map changes will involve further use of high ground, and some new side routes. The underground route seemed, in my opinion, too easy to sneak around in, so I have ideas for different routes.

    Spawn camping: I'm planning on creating stairs between each team's upstairs and downstairs spawns to avoid any enemies right outside the doors.

    I'm keeping the relatively small size of the map even though scouts can traverse it very quickly, because I still want to cater to small teams.

    Finally, I'm considering changing the name from the quite uninteresting "ctf_arch" to the more distinctive "ctf_entrada", referring, of course, to the sandstone formation that is part of the Colorado Plateau.

    Ideas are always appreciated, but I think I have a fairly good idea where I'm going with this :)